Safety & Security in The Firth Of Clyde

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Since You Persist In Staying Off Topic ....

Postby baz » Sat Jul 26, 2014 1:42 am

@ lochend
You may attempt to split as many hairs as you wish, in your defence,
but your intention remains clear, to all but the fool.

"Truth is the best propaganda" Edward R. Murrow

The National Service Bill would require no input from the electorate,
and is the natural extension of the "The Big Society".
But, seemingly this close to a referendum on Independence, and indeed,
a General Election, this Bill would be beyond audacious.
Clearly, any naivety on this matter, is yours alone.

Many questions have been asked, and the answers given.
That is the nature of the YES campaign.
This is not so for the for the opposition.
If you don't like the answer, or understand it, vote no.
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Re: Safety & Security in The Firth Of Clyde

Postby lochend » Sat Jul 26, 2014 3:38 am

I cannot believe you actually think that the unlikely introduction of conscription, by this current government, would not constitute the longest suicide note ever written.! I note how you always seem to be so confident that your views on this, or any other subject, for that matter constitute "the truth?" Hint of arrogance there methinks? Many of the other recent posters on this thread allow themselves a healthy dose of uncertainty!
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Re: Since You Persist In Staying Off Topic ....

Postby gizmo » Sat Jul 26, 2014 10:40 am

baz wrote:[Many questions have been asked, and the answers given.
That is the nature of the YES campaign.
This is not so for the for the opposition.


Behave yourself. Politics by it very nature is smoke and mirrors. No. Lets tell the truth, lies and half truths. I think you would be good at it.
Your recent scare stories about sending our kids into the front line were just that. It was a National Service Bill, which is unlikely ever to see the light of day, the bill talked of using the young people for community service, graffiti cleaning, beach cleaning, social work etc. Not a single bayonet to be issued. There are also regular bills to bring back hanging and the re-introduction of compulsory ID cards, doesnt mean it is likely to happen any time soon. See how it works.

"Many questions have been asked and the answers given" Testicles!
Answers have been hinted at and occasonally the word FACT added at the end as punctuation, doesnt mean it has been answered. Both sides BTW, Aye and Naw.

If you are politically motivated, as a rule of thumb, I dont believe you. Not you personally Baz, all politicos. Just once for a laugh, why dont we ask and FULLY answer a question. If the answer is I am not sure, I would be relatively happy, it happens. I married the only living person who knows everything.

I am still undecided on Yes or No. Is it any wonder though.
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Re: Safety & Security in The Firth Of Clyde

Postby baz » Sat Jul 26, 2014 12:18 pm

@ lochend
Conscription is only one aspect of the proposed National Service Bill.
It had its first reading, and wasn't rejected. It ran out of time.
It can be reintroduced.
As stated previously, now is not the most opportune time for it to proceed, or be rejected.

Due dilligence in research, historical precedent, and a foundation in Humanities
do afford a confidence in my viewpoint.
The basis for my viewpoint is supported by empirical fact.
The "truth" is not of my creation.

@ gizmo
If you were to read the National Service Bill fully, you will indeed find "bayonets".
You neglected to mention unpopular Bills and Military Action that were passed by Westminster,
the Poll Tax and the War in Iraq, for example.

Some conclusive answers require negotiation by both parties.
Westminster and the NO campaign, persist in the obfuscation of these questions.
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Re: Safety & Security in The Firth Of Clyde

Postby lochend » Sat Jul 26, 2014 5:40 pm

"Due dilligence in research, historical precedent, and a foundation in Humanities do afford a confidence in my viewpoint.
The basis for my viewpoint is supported by empirical fact.The "truth" is not of my creation." Such breathtaking conceit,and you wonder why you get people's (well mine at least) backs up! What you mean, once it's distilled down,is you are better educated and those who don't agree with you, or have doubts, are thick! Rather patronising I suggest! :roll:
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Re: Safety & Security in The Firth Of Clyde

Postby baz » Sat Jul 26, 2014 8:32 pm

lochend wrote:Such breathtaking conceit, ......... Rather patronising I suggest!

Well, perhaps it is your own lack of consideration, and thus far,
inability to effectively articulate the counterargument which you espouse,
that leads you to personal attacks, rather than dealing with the pertinent issues.

Better educated? Not necessarily.
I simply function at my own level, and express myself as such.
Vive la différence. 8)
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Re: Safety & Security in The Firth Of Clyde

Postby lochend » Sat Jul 26, 2014 9:11 pm

I will repect other posters reminders that I have, perhaps, followed baz onto the wrong page, and cease.I will also apologise for treading on WC1's toes,not my intention! I would advise Baz,not that he will accept that he needs it,that his obvious passion for, and almost evangelical fervour for this campaign is reduced in effectiveness by his dimissal of other's views by his rather contemptuous manner.
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Re: Safety & Security in The Firth Of Clyde

Postby baz » Sun Jul 27, 2014 1:34 pm

@ lochend
Leaving with not a word on the posted subject?
Just what was your intent?

FYI .... the dismissal of your viewpoint, is your failure to present it.
This may offer some enlightenment.
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Re: Safety & Security in The Firth Of Clyde

Postby Govangirl » Sun Jul 27, 2014 4:59 pm

baz wrote:FYI .... the dismissal of your viewpoint, is your failure to present it.
This may offer some enlightenment.


Okay seriously, I realise we've all been flaming hoodwinked!!!!!! This is a joke isn't it? :<> That last comment cannot be real, no-one would be that arrogant, surely? Is someone posting would-be comments from Royston Vasey?
Blow away the dreams that tear you apart
Blow away the dreams that break your heart
Blow away the lies that leave you nothing but lost and brokenhearted
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Re: Safety & Security in The Firth Of Clyde

Postby WC1 » Sat Aug 02, 2014 8:39 pm

Sorry to be so long responding to one or two posts on this thread, but I've been away in England of late and then I forgot my password (twice) (sign of age, I fear!).

To Govangirl, let me say this. Hoping people on this or any other forum might address themselves to the issues without being insulting to each other may be a vain hope, but in my humble opinion it's a good hope, not a laughable one. But I'm an old-fashioned kind of guy and maybe out of touch.

To Gizmo, yes, Scotland could indeed choose any tradable currency to use after independence, but the pound sterling is he one we use now so it makes sense that it will be the one we use in the future. There really is nothing to stop us doing so. Don't take my word for it. Read this: http://bellacaledonia.org.uk/2014/07/29/its-not-about-about-the-money-money-money/ Apologies for posting to this thread some stuff that would probably be more appropriate elsewhere.
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Re: Safety & Security in The Firth Of Clyde

Postby baz » Sat Aug 09, 2014 4:54 pm

Nuclear bomb convoys travelling
across the UK suffer 70 safety lapses


A new log of incidents obtained from the MoD reveals vehicles have suddenly broken down,
fuel has leaked, brakes have overheated, alarms have malfunctioned and many other vital
systems have failed in convoys on the move between July 2007 and December 2012.

The convoys, which ferry Trident nuclear warheads to and from the Royal Naval Armaments
Depot at Coulport on the Clyde, have also gone the wrong way, been delayed, been diverted
and lost communications. Incidents have happened on average more than once a month,
with by far the highest number - 23 - logged in 2012.

Glasgow Labour councillor and former MSP Bill Butler, who convenes Scotland's nuclear-free
group of local authorities, welcomed the Sunday Herald's revelations. He also highlighted
the 20-vehicle nuclear warhead convoy seen going through Glasgow two weeks ago.

"I shudder to think what would have happened if this convoy had been involved in a serious
traffic accident or a malicious incident. We now know that convoys are regularly involved in
incidents that could easily have become more serious," he said.

The Herald
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