Scottish Water Sewerage Options

[John S]

Hi Michael,

The last option should be considered as containing the other two, sorry I didn't make that clear (and I can't see how to edit the questions) however that’s not important.

What is important is that we don't bang heads together at the meeting on the 28th but that we listen to what is said very carefully - this is not a meeting about making people do something, but about understanding what is being said and questioning the information in an intelligent way. This will not be done with any success in an atmosphere of a kangaroo court. I suspect there will be plenty of opportunities for banging heads together in implementing any solution!

I also suggest that people approach the meeting on the 28th with an open mind, I know this will be difficult for some people with entrenched and personal positions but ultimately, as was agreed at the first Task Force meeting, what we expect is a solution which meets the needs of future generations of the whole community and if we focus on that we might get somewhere.

I'm not suggesting that people compromise there positions, rather the opposite, we should strive for the best possible solution - after all the hassle that’s been caused I think we deserve it.

[Jeanette]

we all have to fight for the same solution. Local businesses are in the front line of this problem every time. Suffering financially from lost trade, damaged premises, lost time clearing up, while at the same time paying rates on domestic and business properties for a system that just doesn't work.

Michael

A final solution to this farce is what everybody wants and at every meeting the shopkeepers being affected is always mentioned as unacceptable. The pipe running down Kilkerran Road or back along Low Askomil or up where the sun don't shine is only a sticking plaster in the short term but will help to alleviate some of your problems regarding flooding and cleaning up the loch. At least for a few years. The long term solution, which is the preferred option for some is many, many years ahead. Hopefully before you are ready to pick up your pension

Regarding John and Les now on board and getting a solution, it's not up to them to find a solution, it is up to Scottish Water the real culprits in all this. The Task Force was formed to encourage S.W. to get their act together and come up with a real alternative for Campbeltown's sewerage problems which they created. I fully support the Task force as should everyone who is affected but please remember that the CCC, of which I am a member has asked the same questions for years with no success. Hopefully this time with the added support of representatives from various groups Scottish Water will take this issue seriously and come up with a solution. The more support the better.

As you probably know Willie Mc Millan is the link for the shokeepers and we all know how much he has been affected and I saw for myself your shop about to be flooded.

A clearer insight to all this can be gained by attending the meetings and that applies to everyone.

Jeanette

[Campbeltown Seagull]

I totally agree with John S - "The land is not ours but borrowed from our children"
We must be united in asking Scottish Water to produce a long term sustainable solution which does not pollute or degrade any aspect of the local environment.
The measures which Scottish Water have said that they are now currently putting in place as recently required by SEPA are:-
1)To keep emptying the storage at the Kinloch Park pumping station which they were not doing( - and this cannot have helped the smells either!)
2) To increase the capacity of the membranes at the treatment works and
3) To increase the pumping capacity or rate of the pumps at Kinloch Park
These measures coupled with the fact that the weir in the pumping station has been lowered should mean that the flooding of premises is much less likely now than it was.
If more of the water which comes from the burns and drains and gets into the system during heavy rain and overwhelms it were to be removed this would mean that flooding was very unlikely to occur and we could afford to wait a bit longer for the final solution to be implemented.

We must not bicker amongst ourselves - the past is the past and we must now move on with everybody entitled to a view but with everybody committed to the best solution for the long term good of Campbeltown.

Campbeltown has so many assets such as the harbour with its pontoons, Quarry Green, Kinloch Park, the clean beaches outside the loch, the beaches inside the loch (which should become unpolluted in time), the dhorlin, and the island just to mention some, and these should be fiercely protected and preserved by us all because once we have allowed Scottish Water to degrade them, it would be an awful long time before we could ever get the damage reveresed if ever. Allowing Scottish Water to degrade any part of our environment would not only affect our own quality of life but it would also affect Tourism, Fishing, Wildlife and many of the water related activities enjoyed by both the community and visitors.

Campbeltown should be the place to go for a sparking clean loch, pure local food, immaculate beaches etc - we could achieve this if we all pulled together as a community and demanded of Scottish Water and our politicians that nothing less will do.

[DMS Graphics]

Okay John, save the head banging for later.
I didn't want to use compromise in what I said earlier, because your right it's not about that, but finding the right solution.

What I am trying to say is when it's finally agreed in what to do, any disruption is for the benefit for everyone and we need to get that point, having weighed up all the facts, knowing it is the right decision.

Jeanette I know it's not up to John and Les to find the solution, but hopefully they can get everyone (including Scottish Water) heading in the same direction and reach the right informed decision. Also to keep the pressure on Scottish Water. Each month seems to bring more headaches for them with SEPA tightening up regulations and we don't want a quick fix just to save them a few million quid.

On the subject of SEPA they have stated before that they will not take action against Scottish Water for polluting the loch, because any fines imposed would just be added on to our rates. Why not fine them £50,000 every time they pollute they loch or streets and then hand the money to the local community. The money could be used to clear up beaches, the loch or streets.

Hopefully I have made myself a bit clearer. it isn't always easy to get your point across.
I would like to attend the meetings, but circumstances always seem to overtake me, such as next week, arrival of new baby.

[John S]

Jeanette, I don’t necessarily think that a permanent solution is many, many years away, and one thing we must not do is give Scottish Water the impression that we are prepared to wait that long.

Great things can be done in a very short space of time when the will or the incentive is there. It is a shame that we have waited this long, perhaps there are lessons to be learned in the way our community has dealt with this problem.

But lets try to put up a united front and speak with one voice - nothing motivates civil servants more than the spotlight being put on them and there shortcoming being drawn into sharp focus. As long as we childishly bicker and score points off each other they will put our problems in slow lane.

[petewick]

Great things can be done in a very short space of time when the will or the incentive is there.

That seems a fair comment John, we may not have the solution but at least we have the will to look for one.

Petewick

[John S]

Michael Said -

Each month seems to bring more headaches for them with SEPA tightening up regulations and we don't want a quick fix just to save them a few million quid.

A quick fix wont save them - The latest information we have is that Scottish Water have already admitted that the current situation does not comply with there conditions of concent to discharge.

And by the 31st of December of this year it will no longer be acceptable to blame "technical difficulties " as a excuse or as an exemption from legal action. SEPA have already issued them with a pre enforcement notice.

They know there position is untennable, and nothing will suffice but a solution that complies with legislation.

[Malky]

At the time of writing, this thread has had 330 views but only 10 votes in the poll. Roughly 3.3% of people have voted. I'm quite surprised by that

Malky

[Thewetman]

Don't be surprised Malky be afraid, be very afraid, due to the lack of interest shown by the wee toon - the cooncil are monitirin their own solution to the Campbeltown sewage peoblem and accordin to Nancie they’ll be ready to impliment it in six weeks, then the toonies will all be in it!

[John S]

It is no surprise Malky that people are not keen to vote. The issues are complicated and when the discussions become highly charged, some people thrive on it, but I suspect most just get turned off, which is a shame because peoples livelihoods, as Jeanette pointed out, are at stake.

While I know that traders are often unwilling to give their opinions in public (except Michael - thanks) it would good to hear from some more of the people most affected by flooding - what are their hopes are for the resolution of the sewerage situation?

[Gus]

I know people are being asked to vote - but do they really understand they are voting for?? I for one still dont clearly understand what exactly is happening.

If task forces and groups are meeting regarding this why dont they produce some sort of leaflet explaining where we are at just now, whats so far been done, whats the likely options so people can decide for themselves without tinited glasses on whats the best option for the town.

Also a website that can be visited to give information on the subject could be an option.

I know the feeling is probably that people are not bothered because its immediatly there problem, but certainly in my case its not a f**k it attitutude its more of ignorance.

Surely before asking people to decide, they should be educated on exactly what they are voting for.

[LO]

Gus

Just a quick note to clear up some points you have made here.
Firstly, with regard to the vote on this thread, John posted this purely to stimulate debate on what Scottish Water's priorities should be in seeking a solution to Campbeltown's sewage woes. It has no purpose beyond this and is not attached to any specific proposal. The wording seemed a bit ambiguous at first but I believe John clarified the situation in his subsequent posting.

Regarding the Task Force, we neither put forward proposals or have any decision making powers with regard to Scottish Water's proposals. The Task Force is an attempt to unify the various stakeholder groups who are affected by the sewerage problem by speaking with one voice on the core issues that Scottish Water should be addressing - i.e. that the people of Campbeltown have a right to a solution which is long-term, sustainable and legal. This is explained in more depth on the Task Force Thread on the Message Board. Unfortunately, we are a voluntary group and so we do not have the resources to operate a full-on dedicated web site but we do try to keep the wider community up to speed with minutes of meetings and news as often as we can. Meetings as ever are open to members of the public and details of times, venues etc. are posted here or can be found in the Courier or on Argyll FM.

There is a meeting on Thursday 28th July, 7.30 pm in the Town Hall where Scottish Water are expected to outline their latest proposals, and SEPA will give their perspective on what they require from Scottish Water to demonstrate compliance with current and future legislation.

Although there will be a short Q & A session, it should be stressed that the Task Force will primarily be in listening mode. It is expected that Scottish Water could be presenting up to 5 proposals and it would be stupid for us to try and absorb both the technical and physical implications in such a short time. Thus we will consider them at a separate meeting to see if we can find a consensus which we can recommend to the people of the town.

Can I also take this opportunity of saying that as Chairman of the meeting, while I will allow some questions from the general public at the end of the Task Force's Q & A session, this will be on the understanding that these will be constructive. Regardless of what has happened in the past, Scottish Water and SEPA are not coming to Campbeltown to face trial by a Kangaroo Court. As such, I will not tolerate any aggressive behaviour towards these officials and anyone who decides otherwise will be asked to leave the meeting. Similarly, questions which are no more than a thinly-disguised rant about what has happened in the past will not be permitted unless they can be shown to have current relevance.

Hope to see as many people as possible at the meeting - as Gus said people need to know what is happening and this a perfect opportunity to hear Scottish Water's latest thinking at first hand. It will be particularly interesting, as we understand that they have just recently admitted that the Kildalloig Bay proposal they put forward was in fact incompetent as it did not address the shortcomings of the pumping station at Kinloch Green. I'm sure we will all be keen to learn more about this on Thursday.

Les

[bubbly jock]

Les

It may seem unlikely but it is highly possible that not a lot of people do know about this thread for the simple reason that a high percentage of ordinary rate payers may not have access to this site to read all about the ranters and ravers and therefore John's poll is really just for the few.

Just an observation not a critcism.

bubbly

[John S]

That was the point of the health warning bubbly, and as I said earlier the meeting on the 28th can only be a precursor to full consultation - there are lots of things that restrict peoples access to information; like being unable to attend meetings and being reticent to speak out in public, we need to make sure, this time, that everyone has the opportunity to understand the issues and have their views noted - no doubt this site will play a role in that.

How do you think consultation in the issue should progress bubbly?

Cheers

John

[LO]

It may seem unlikely but it is highly possible that not a lot of people do know about this thread for the simple reason that a high percentage of ordinary rate payers may not have access to this site to read all about the ranters and ravers and therefore John's poll is really just for the few.

bubbly

bubbly

Quite agree - our strategy, such as it is, is to use all the media at our limited disposal - The Courier, AFM and the Kintyre Message Board to try and communicate with the public at large. Realistically we can't expect either the Courier or AFM to carry the minutes of meetings but at least they can advise people where and when they will take place and then it's up to the individual to try and get along.

Minutes of previous meeting are available to those attending and we are happy to give copies to anyone who asks for them outwith meetings. Unfortunately we can't be proactive on this front as we can't guess who wants them, so people have to make themselves known to us. I suppose if the wider public felt strongly enough, we could make them available via outlets such as the library or Council offices, but one of the advantages of the Stakeholder Group approach is that individuals can always contact the Stakeholder Group which best represents their interests for further information. Residents of the town should note that if they have no issue-specific stakeholder interest, their default representative would be the Community Council. (More about the identified stakeholder groups can be found in the notes from the initial Task Force Meeting - see Sewerage Task Force Thread)
The web site does give us the opportunity to put up a bit more info, and this was the point I was trying to put over with regard to Gus's message - i.e. there is a thread which we do use to communicate, but that is as close as we could ever get to a dedicated web site.


Hope that this makes some sense - I feel I'm starting to ramble - must be the heat!

Les