Olympic Dreams

[Mary G]

Right thats the last time I believe The Herald

John A

I long ago gave up on the Herald – time you did too!
They are truly reckless when it comes to getting the facts right. At least with a tabloid you know to be suspicious

[Mary G]

Not being a football fan ... does the above discussion imply that if there was a unified Team GB in the World Cup, would Scotland, and indeed England (let’s not forget Wales), be able to get a better result?

Whether in hockey, cycling, rowing, waterpolo - or even football - the best teams are the ones that train together, work for each other, play to a commonly understood method and game-plan – often one that has been practised, almost ad nauseum. Our rowing and cycling teams famously did exactly that. Likewise Argentina in Olympics football.

So, a GB football team would be unlikely to perform – in practice – to its theoretical potential. It is like pipe bands too, EMDEE. You will be familiar with a well-known Grade 1 band that, when it formed in the late 1980s/ early 1990s, comprised mainly prize-winning solo pipers. That did not make them a great band – a good one, yes, but not as good as it looked on paper. They certainly did not sweep the boards in the early days, and only made a decent impact when they had been playing together for a few years.

I think that the need to enter a GB football team is something of a distraction. Football generates only two medals, while swimming had 46, track and field 47, and gymnastics 51 (approximate numbers ... from memory ... before anyone corrects me ). I can see the symbolic importance of entering a team in 2012 because as the host nation we can enter for everything, as I understand it. So even our basketball team (did one go to China?) can put in an appearance – great for the experience, but not much chance of a medal, I would guess.

The idea to have a play-off / tournament among England, Northern Ireland, Scotland and Wales international football teams - with the winner representing GB - has a lot to commend it, in my view, if we really want a GB team. I reckon that any one of the home nations would probably do better anyway than a group of players from all the home countries, brought together solely for the London Olympics ... British Power, we could call them .

[Mary G]

Oops - it is late, and I have just read EMDEE's post properly - it relates to the World Cup, not the Olympics.

I will stick with my logic, that they would not be that great - initally anyway.
But they would probably play extremely poorly in every tournament due to a total lack of travelling support

[Govangirl]

I read today, and heard it on Sky Sports last night, that Sir Alex has been approached to coach the GB team for London 2012. Well, it has to make a difference to have the greatest coach in the world, surely?

[Trapper]

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[Trapper]

ANd this should end the Chris Hoy debate once and for all.

Quote from Chris Hoy,

"I feel a bit upset that I have been quoted as saying the idea of a Scottish Olympic team is ridiculous.
If and when a Scottish team was put together, I would be delighted to represent Scotland in the Olympic Games.
But before that happens, so much needs to be done for the athletes to be able to compete at the highest level.
As a cyclist, there isn't a facility in Scotland where I can train throughout the year and that's why I have to base myself outside Scotland.

"I am proud to be Scottish, but at the same time it's not feasible to think we can compete as a nation without the right facilities."

As I said, Chris Hoy would love for thier to be a scottish olympic team IF there were proper facilities to train at.

[Wee Toon Ajax]

Trapper, good post - was just going to post the same quote.

Been reading all the posts about where Scotland would be placed if they had entered their own team - who cares.

I think the most important thing is seeing Scottish born athletes competing in Scottish jersys marching into the stadium under the Scottish flag. And if entering a separate Scottish team meant that more Scots got the opportunity to actually compete at an Olympics than the 32 who represented the UK in the Beijing then surely that makes it worthwhile, no matter where they finished.

In addition, if having a separate Olympics team meant an increase in top class sporting facilities within Scotland for use by all Scottish athletes and local communities for training, competition etc then can anybody argue with that.

PS Somebody mentioned that one of Hoys Gold medals in the Mens team sprint would not have counted as his team mates were English - sorry this is nonsense. The Scotland team would have consisted of Hoy, Ross Edgar (who won silver in the Kirin in Beijing) and Craig MacLean - with that team who is to say we would not have won another Gold which most surely would have pushed us up the table as if it was important anyway.

[bill]

ANd this should end the Chris Hoy debate once and for all.

Quote from Chris Hoy,

"I feel a bit upset that I have been quoted as saying the idea of a Scottish Olympic team is ridiculous.
If and when a Scottish team was put together, I would be delighted to represent Scotland in the Olympic Games.
But before that happens, so much needs to be done for the athletes to be able to compete at the highest level.
As a cyclist, there isn't a facility in Scotland where I can train throughout the year and that's why I have to base myself outside Scotland.

"I am proud to be Scottish, but at the same time it's not feasible to think we can compete as a nation without the right facilities."

As I said, Chris Hoy would love for thier to be a scottish olympic team IF there were proper facilities to train at.

Have I missed something ? When did representing your country at the Olympics become a multiple choice?,unless you change your citizenship.

Chris Hoy is Scottish,so if Scotland were to gain independence and enter a team at the Olympics,then Chris Hoy would have no choice but to represent Scotland as he does in the Commonwealth Games.

[bill]

Trapper, good post - was just going to post the same quote.

Been reading all the posts about where Scotland would be placed if they had entered their own team - who cares.

The very same people(most of us) who care PASSIONATELY when Scotland does not qualify for World Cups and European Championships.

The days of "it's not the winning it's the taking part" are long gone.

[Mary G]

Yes Trapper - there is no doubting Chris Hoy's patriotism - nor his realism. In the Daily Record interview from which you quote, you missed out his final sentence:

"Right now, around £20 million a year is being invested in British cycling so there would be a huge investment required in Scotland."

That is £20 million of UK tax-payers' money. For cycling, alone. There are also comparably big sums for all the other major sports. If every one of these sports was going to make that level of investment in each of England, Northern Ireland, Scotland and Wales, then that is - inevitably - a quadrupling of all the elite sports spending in the UK. And that would be serious spending for the smaller home countries.

If Scotland went it alone, this is how it would work out for cycling.

* Scotland makes up around 8% of the UK population.
* So we could reasonably argue that 8% of the £20,000,000 investment is ours.
* That 8% works out at £1.6 million.
* But to replicate the whole facility and service in Scotland we would need to spend an extra £18.4 million to make it up to the £20,000,000 required. And that is an extra £18.4 million every year!
* That is more than a 1,000% increase, and it is not credible to believe that Scotland would make this investment; from which current budget could we find £18.4 million annually to support elite cycling?
* And similarly, in Northern Ireland and Wales, massive sums would need to be found ... or more likely not.
* So where then would the other home countries' athletes be? In the US? - the well-off ones maybe. Or stuck at home? - much more likely

And that only deals with cycling!
And if we did go down this route, all it would do is fund something that we have already, and paid for from our taxes – we have a stake in these investments – they are ours.

This is not an anti-Scottish stance – nor a defeatist one. I think we should all recognise that the current set-up provides our sportsmen and women with the chance to excel, and gives us the best of both worlds - being Scottish and British.

[Hume]

Mary, what makes you think we'd need to spend the same amount on cycling as Team GB has? Surely a country with 8% of the population of another as would just spend 8% of the money i.e pro rata to achieve the same success?

We'd be training 92% less people so would need 92% less facilities and 92% less coaches/staff etc

Therefore in your cycling example the spend would still be 1.6m, which you estimate we already contribute (probably more though ) not the 20m a much larger country would need to spend.

I wanted to post a similar point to WTA about not being particularly bothered about success too but was beaten to it. The important thing for me is for our atheletes to compete for Scotland at the olympics.

[Mary G]

A large part of the £20 million goes on specialisation, Hume, not volume, from what I understand. It pays for specialist medical, technical, bike engineering, physiological, fitness coaching, conditioning coaching, tactical training, etc, etc. And it pays for the physical facilities, their maintenance and servicing. To get the same quality of facilities, and specialist support, you would need to pay pretty much the same again. Either that, or do without lots of these specialists, or cut down their availability to half a day a week (around 8%). And a half-size velodrome is not much good!

I am sure that there will be some saving on the grounds of scale, but at the end of the day there is no way our cyclists would choose to train in a £1.6 million set-up if they had access to a £20 million one. And a £20 million set-up that is ours in any case, as you rightly pointed out!

[Trapper]

Mary Your sums certainly are very impressive but, as hume says, we wouldnt be expecting a seperate scottish team to attain the same level of medals as a british team. For scotland, a nation of 5 million people, to win that amount of medals would surely be the greatest and most astounding achievement in Olympic history!

At the end of the day, there wont be a Scottish team unless cotland is independent so really this is a political discussion more than a sporting one.
I'm as yet undecided on the idea of an Independent scotland, although if the best argument for the union that unionists have is as trivial not winning as many medals at the olympics I think the nationalists might be winning me over!

And Bill, Chris Hoy could change his nationality if he wanted to compete for whtever was left of the united kingdom. He could change it to whatever nation he wants providing he gets a citizenship.

[Hume]

nope, i think i said chris hoy trains with uk facilities - i didnt mention the word ours.

I dont know what the 20m is spent on but i wouldnt advocate scotlands 1.6m money being spent on half sized velodromes (not sure if that is the plural?) - half as many full ones would do though. Surely the one in the east end of glasgow will be a top calss facility?

I take your point about specialisation though but if thats the case why don't we just pool our resources and compete as europe in an attempt to overhaul usa and china - with all those russians in our side we might do it.

[bill]

And Bill, Chris Hoy could change his nationality if he wanted to compete for whtever was left of the united kingdom. He could change it to whatever nation he wants providing he gets a citizenship.

Going back 7 posts...............



Have I missed something ? When did representing your country at the Olympics become a multiple choice?,unless you change your citizenship