Help needed on motorbikes

[Govangirl]

I am in the middle of a dilemma and wondered if there were any members on here who ride motorcycles. My son, who is 17, has always, desperately, wanted a motorbike and we as parents have always, vociferously, said no. A policeman friend of mine has said that if he really wants a bike he should learn to drive first and have the experience of driving for 2 years to see how drivers think. My son is adamant that he has no interest in driving despite the offer of paying for all his lessons and getting him a wee car. We have had this conflict on a much larger scale since he turned 17 and it is worse since two of his friends now have bikes. We tried to compromise by saying we would get him a 50cc scooter but he says he'd need to leave for school at 5 in the morning just to be there for 9.
He is a very trusted and smart boy but I am having nightmares over him driving a bike. He is hoping to go to Glasgow Uni next year and says he will just get a bike then and there's nothing we can do about it. That seems even worse now because he won't get the amount of training we'd be willing to pay for if we did it now and also it would be much more dangerous beginning in a busy city.
He wants a 125cc, some sort of Kawasaki. Please help me - has anyone else had this experience? If a motorbike owner, what do you think? All my friends and family are saying we'd be mad if we let him and I'm in a real quandary.

[gizmo]

Your policeman friend is right. However if the teenage son is adamant you are on a loser. (Teenagers know everything about everything). I would persevere on the car front and hold bike lessons in reserve. You could try the old you cant get much winching done on a motorbike gambit, or my favourite "I thought bikes were for balding middle aged men" (No offence Peachy. .. If as you say he is smart speak to him about casualty rates and hope he sees sense, but if you think back how much notice did you take of the wrinklies back in the day. The good news is with the lessons now the vast majority are more safety aware than previously.

[Ninja Mania]

Bikes are great, especially for getting through bad traffic, let him have one, but he will need to do the proper training course for it anyway.
The only thing dangerous about bikes is the stupid car drivers, and thats a proven fact.
I started my biking days of many many moons ago on a kawasaki 125, great wee reliable cheap to run bikes, and although I had one that could do 0 to 60 faster than an RS Turbo from standing start, its top speed was only about 75-80.
GG you have to cut the apron cord sooner rather than later. Dont think you will worry less if he own's a car, it just does'nt work that way.

[Govangirl]

Thank you soooooooooo much, this is most helpful. And I do agree with your last statement Ninja . . . it's just so hard.

But keep the advice coming please!

[EileenH]

Thats just crazy to say that car drivers are to blame. That is not the case. I spent many years travelling pillion on a motorbike. Bikers take many unnecessary risks, passing in places that cars wouldn't etc. I didn't see the dangers as I was young and didn't drive. My son is now asking for a motorbike and I have said no. I have said if he waits til he learns to drive a car first then we can talk about it. Luckily he has agreed. Govangirl, stick to your guns. maybe by the time he can go get one he will maybe have changed his mind. The first tiime he's on a bike and gest off soaked to the skin annd cannae feel his feet or fingers might just put him off!

[Ninja Mania]

Your certainly entitled to your opinion EileenH, but what I will add too your comment is, bike's will pass cars in a third of the distance that another car can, and also make the manouvre a hellava lot quicker.
Also 8 out of 10 crashes involving bikes are caused by cars coming out in front off bikers, because they just dont see them.
I drive a car and always look out for biker's, maybe thats because I went on a safety course for biker's, they taught us about the dangers car driver's can cause biker's.
Btw good for you to say no to your son with regards him wanting a bike, although I dont think that this was the right thing to do.
I taught my youngest boy to drive bike's from the age of 7 or so, and he has had his own wee bike to play about with in farmer's fields.
He now has no interest in biking, but want's to buy a tractor.
No way will I allow that, I used to ride on the back of tractor's when I was younger, they are way to dangerous for him to have one.
I rest my case.

[Iain]

GG…, I have a doctor friend who had the same dilemma ! He asked permission from the local hospital to invite his son to visit the severely injured. (not a pretty sight) A bit like the photos of cancerous lungs on fag packets ! A deterrent !

I tend to agree with Gizmo and Eileen…, even although Ninja is correct in saying that the cord must be cut at some time or another.

I suppose it's extremely difficult to generalize, and I do believe that the majority of those who ride bikes are more often than not, intelligent enough to understand the dangers and drive cautiously. The problem is that many of the young develop "show-off" characteristics, and when this is combined with the sudden feeling of power while being totally distanced from that "infernal parental counseling"…, they end up paralyzed if lucky, and/or, responsible for the deaths of other road users. Others would add that this also goes for cars…, nonetheless, when you're learning to drive a car, you're obliged to have someone next to you to show you the ropes…, which is not the case on a bike !

GG…, I'd take a good look at his friends who have bikes ! This will give you a good idea on how he'll react if ever he finds himself with one.

I think the most important thing is that he understands all the dangers…, not only for himself, but also the effects of inconsideration and incompetence on the lives of other people.

[Ninja Mania]

Iain, your statement is not exactly true, with regards to having someone to show you the ropes, which is not the case with a bike. Not true.
To drive a bike above a certain cc you first have to take a safety course, with proper qualified instructers. This course will take a minimum of 5 days to complete, followed by an escorted bike test, if you are compitent enough after this, you will get a bike licence.
Gone are the days when we could just jump onto any bike and away we go, there is a lot more to obtaining a bike licence than just that.

On a finishing note, we were shown a video clip of injuries recieved by a biker after he was clipped from behing by another vehicle, he was not wearing proper biking clothing, which resulted in major loss of skin injuries for him, 3 seconds of contact with the road, and his skin was stripped to the bone, horrific is about the only way I could describe the video, however it did teach me a major lesson on biking, protect yourself as much as possible when out on your bike, t-shirts and shorts are for posers and mugs.

[Iain]

Gone are the days when we could just jump onto any bike and away we go, there is a lot more to obtaining a bike licence than just that.

Forgive me Ninja..., perhaps I was showing my age there !

[EileenH]

It's like going out on a bicycle - you seem invisible to alot of drivers. Maybe if we all had to go out on a bicycle or a motorbike before learning to drive a car we would be a wee bit more considerate of other road users. It's not the cars or motorbikes that are dangerous - it's the people who drive them. I know I give cyclists alot of room on the road after my experiences on the road.

[gizmo]

I know where you are coming from Ninja with the "stupid car drivers are to blame for most accidents" bit. Although I dont really believe it. It would be of very little consolation to me to know it wasnt my fault after an accident on a bike. You almost always lose in a collision. You are more liable to be hurt on a bike than you are in a car.. However if someone is going to get a bike safety awareness training is HUGELY important. It should be borne in mind that the vast majority of bikers are never seriously hurt but lessening the risk is important.

[Iain]

It's like going out on a bicycle - you seem invisible to alot of drivers. Maybe if we all had to go out on a bicycle or a motorbike before learning to drive a car we would be a wee bit more considerate of other road users. It's not the cars or motorbikes that are dangerous - it's the people who drive them. I know I give cyclists alot of room on the road after my experiences on the road.

Here in Belgium with Eddy Merkx and La Tour de France, cycling is a government sponsored sport in order to create a healthier population. But oh my God…, only God and government know exactly how many deaths are provoked by these health-conscious egoists…, with most of them doing it simply for their sexy-clad outfits. Cycling in double-file…, all cars are reduced to an infuriating snails-pace and at times obliged to take risks, and even in single-file next to a continuous white line, I sometimes feel like running them over.

And this, is the problem !

As cyclists reduce car speed…, so do cars reduce motorbike speed ! …, and as such, they too take egoistic chances that distract and create accidents.

Saw a USA video the other day with satellite controlled cars on the motorways ! One day…, will motorbikes be obliged to adapt the same system ?

[EileenH]

One of my experiences on my bike in the town was where I was coming along past the Victoria Halls. A pick-up came out of the junction opposite, stopped in front of me, then started reversing back as I was coming up behind it! I wasn't too polite to put it mildly, when I came up beside him! Another time I was going round the roundabout and two guys walked out in front of me. I literally cycled between the two of them! I now don't cycle in the town. Far safer in the car! However, I do agree that, at least in a car you have more protection than on a motorbike. I was never involved an an accident during the years I travelled on one but I did wear leathers and proper bike boots with shin protection. Never kept out the cold though!

[Govangirl]

but I did wear leathers and proper bike boots with shin protection.

Eileen, never had you down as a leather-clad biker chick - good for you Missus!!!!!

Again, thanks for all the advice although the boy is adamant I should only be listening to 'that cool dude, Ninja'

Believe me, I have been sticking to my guns since he turned 17 four months ago but the idea of him going off next Summer and getting a bike without our help seems to be a worse option. If he is not going to change his mind about a bike (and I now know he won't) I feel we have to train him properly. I would be all for him wearing the right equipment which to me is all part of that 'training' I mentioned. His two friends have always been sensible and worn the right stuff and they have been safe so far on the roads. Also, the bit about the car is pertinent because his older brother wrapped his car around a lampost at 17!!!!! The most mitigating factor in that was speed - the only thing was, the airbags saved his life and they don't come as optional on a bike.

[Ninja Mania]

Speed kills, I think most of us know that.
I have been around the TT track on Isle of Man on 3 occassions, doing rediculous speeds with my new sports bike exceeding 150mph, it is scary stuff, especially when you are passed on both sides by 2 guy's racing.
I have seen biker's lying dead in fields and gardens, simply because they could not take a corner at the speed they were doing, that is when I started to understand the meaning off (Mad Sunday). It was also when I decided that sports bikes and their super fast speeds, were not for me anymore, that and the pot holes, cow dung, manhole covers, diesel, oil, cats eyes, leaves, animals, pedestrian's, loose chip's, other vehicles, etc etc etc.
The road's hold many danger's for biker's, but it's the biker as an individual, who control's what speed they go at.

Ps..Offer's invited for, 1 hardly used BMW F650 tourer.