The Kintyre Forum

"A beautiful green and heather laden land"
Is that the way you truly see this - our land - Scotland.
I suppose in many ways romantic descriptions, originate through positive thought -and appreciation of the landscape and its people.
However it remains a slim veneer, a description that serves only, the reinforcement of negative stereotypes.
The latter being chiefly inflicted, time upon time, by the English press and media. Hollywood has also contributed to this make believe world, a tartan drunken myth that would put -even Walter Scott to shame.
Nevertheless I hope you enjoy your stay in Scotland. Visit the city of Glasgow.

Now, now Ions - be nice! If he wants to think it is a lovely place it is up to him. And he will surely find out on his trip here! And, that said, he did live here before so he must have at least an inkling as to what the place looks like even although it was a while ago!

Oh, the way, Fyling Dragon, tell Caroline congrats on her recent graduation from college!

And, Ions are ye naw posting from the "Dear green place" yerself????

Aye yer right enough Ann. Dear place Glasgow, miserable feckin hell o a toon.

ionnsaigh wrote:"A beautiful green and heather laden land"
Is that the way you truly see this - our land - Scotland.
I suppose in many ways romantic descriptions, originate through positive thought -and appreciation of the landscape and its people. However it remains a slim veneer, a description that serves only, the reinforcement of negative stereotypes....

Just curious.. how do you find that a NEGATIVE stereotype? Seems if you are going to stereotype something, better to pick out the good than the bad.

Ionns.. how would you describe Scotland to someone who has never been there?

Now that is a question and a half Bobbie, ya rascal - need a couple of days to ponder.

Scotland
Welcome to Scotland a land divided by a number of stark contrasts.
In order to grasp a true understanding one has to examine both sides of the coin, a half dollar note has no value.
Heavy industry has left a legacy particularly in the central belt . Shipbuilding and Engineering employed thousands of skilled workers. Cities and large towns sprung up to house the growing numbers of workers. Mining Textiles Agriculture and the Fishing industries that once enjoyed prominence, suddenly had a rival that would offer new skills, and conditions to the workers, and their families.
Housing conditions particularly those of the unskilled labouring class in Glasgow where appalling. Preventable disease was widespread in the slum tenements. Three families would share an outside toilet. Scabies and head lice where common, vitamin deficiency left many Glaswegians crippled. The majority of the poorer class where Irish immigrant workers, forced off their land by starvation and ruthless landlords. Trade Unionism was in its infancy, the miners organised and downed tools for a penny an hour extra, by all accounts this was a long harsh drawn out struggle, with both sides refusing to budge. The employers decided to hire Irish immigrant workers who where desperate to find the means to survive. These workers happened to be Catholic, a difference seized upon by the striking Protestant workers. Catholic discrimination to this day exists, The Glasgow Herald, various shipbuilding yards H@W- all actively practised a no catholic's here policy. come on the Glasgow Rangers.

The housing schemes of today are bleak places with little or no amenities, drugs and crime are rife in large areas of the city. These enclaves produce ever increasing numbers of dysfunctional families, who by their very nature are dependent on Society, at great cost to that society.
Scotland is a beautiful country, one that I love dearly, however I refuse to accept the suffering of the poor as being normal. Or in some way blame the poor for being poor.

I apologise to FlyingDragon as my post was curt as was my attitude, sorry.

That maybe a one sided view of Glasgow(or any industrial city from the 50's),but it certainly is not a description of Scotland.

Ionnsaigh. Do you work for the English Tourist Board?

hugh

There is no need to apologize Ionnsaigh as you just see the reality and politics of life, whereas I was describing the raw beauty of Scotland.

Bobbie En Tejas wrote:Ionns.. how would you describe Scotland to someone who has never been there?

C'mon Ionns the question wasn't "describe post-industrial revolution Glasgow from a Catholic Socialist perspective" How does your answer relate to Stornoway, Aberdeen, Ullapool, Kelso - or is there not enough poverty in these places to warrant your attention?

Anyway Bobbie, if you'll excuse me as I wasn't initially invited, I thought I'd offer you my response to your question ......

Scotland is a land of 5 million inhabitants. It is one of the 4 countries constituting United Kingdom, along with England, Wales and Northern Ireland. It has only one land border with England to the south. Two thirds of it's population are Christian.

It has a land mass of about 30,000 Square Miles (similar to South Carolina) and is split into 3 geographic regions, the Highlands, the Lowlands and the Southern Uplands. These are areas of stunning natural beauty, not to mention the almost 800 islands located in the coastal waters. Generally it is difficult to be more than 50 miles from the sea, with the northern part of the Gulf Stream providing a mild climate. The majority of the population (over 65%) live in the 'Central Belt' stretching from the Firth of Clyde to the Firth of Forth, and taking in the two main cities of Glasgow and Edinburgh.

In the central belt, Scotland's traditional employers were the heavy industries of coal mining, engineering, shipbuilding. Modern Scotland's economy is now driven by IT, Financial Services, Tourism, Oil Production and Electronics. Rural industries such as farming, fishing, and whisky production still exist but have been subject to much 'restructuring' over the recent years.

It has internationally recognised and admired legal and education systems (both separate to the rest of the UK). The Scots are also well known inventors.

The Scots are fanatical about their national sport of Football (soccer) however there are also keen interests in Rugby (Union), and of course, Golf.

The Scots people are known for their hospitality, humour and occassional indulgence with drink. There are thousands of years of history and culture, for whatever takes your fancy. It is a land rich in people, scenery, culture, contrasts and history. It is also a place for the future.

Finally, if you want to live in a slum, inject sh1te into your veins, and live off the state then, much like the rest of Western Europe, you can do that here as well

Thank you, Sheik. Sounds like a much more realistic and balanced look.

I'm thinking of all this and allowing myself of all the visuals in my mind's eye, remembering the places I've been there, the people I met, some very friendly, some not so friendly, some places breathtaking and some fairly ordinary, but its making me want to cry in the remembering. I'll never forget Scotland.

Scotland,
Has a population of Five Million, approximately one third of this number live on or below the poverty line.
This dire situation is entirely unacceptable in any civilised society. Nobody I know wishes to live in a slum - or inject drugs into their veins, those that do are ill and should be given care and understanding. Your attitude towards these unfortunate individuals, is the right wing nonsense fostered by those who control the media.

A Catholic Socialist perspective is a new one to me I find the term contradictory. I am neither a Catholic or socialist in the strictest terms.

Bobbie,
In order to achieve some form of balance, one has to examine both sides of the coin , as I stated before - a Half Dollar note has no value.
My original contention was a criticism of romanticism, in that it fails to provide an adequate picture, of life here in Scotland.
Thirty Three Thousand families in Glasgow had applied for clothing grants,( school uniforms) in order that parents send their Children to School in appropriate clothing. Twenty Two Thousand children in Glasgow are entitled to free school meals.
Glasgow has the highest premature death rate . Prisons are overflowing bursting at the seams with minor offenders ( non payment of fines ).
People in Kintyre have to travel to Oban or Glasgow for specialist treatment. When you consider the amount of wealth that Kintyre has contributed to the overall economy, then it becomes all too apparent, what the Government really thinks about the welfare of the people of Kintyre.

Sheik, if the figures you post are accurate - regarding religion. Two thirds being Christian, then I ask where is the Christian spirit of helping others in need. Your attitude turns them away from your door, the hungry tired naked and cold pass on by. No evidence of humanities finer attributes altruism , no shred of human kindness.
Your post fails to take into account the economic circumstances of our Five Million inhabitants, be they rich or poor. Wealthy landlords drove the people from their land , whole villages burned to the ground because the grazing of sheep was more profitable, the British Authorities ignored the cries of the starving and dying.
Why, one can only hazard a guess, as to their attitude to the starvation of the Scots and the Irish.
History serves to show the utter contempt of the Scots - by our English imperialist masters.

Scotland is a land of contrasts yes, why shoot the messenger when he brings news that distorts the rosy coloured picture of Scotland that some hold dear, for after all we only serve injustice - to ignore the cries of the poor.