RAF Machrihanish

IF you want to find out more about the local history of Kintyre or post some interesting stories then here is the place! All contributors welcome! You can also check out the Historic Kintyre and Down Memory Lane websites.

Postby Sweltered » Wed Jun 21, 2006 12:30 am

Martin wrote:Goldielocks, I don't suppose you knew another R.A.F. copper called Brian Shields ? I know he was still there in the early seventies.

Just for the record, when I lived there us kids were never allowed to roam free in the camp itself, we were allowed down to the NAAFI and the Americans to their PX (they were allowed to use our NAAFI but we weren't allowed in their PX. Not that I'm bitter you undertsand, but they had better sweets than we did !), we could also wander through the station to the beach, I remember things being quite strict.


Must have been different to the sweeties they sell in the shops here...do you like cooking chocolate?
OOH did they knock down McCaigs folly.....
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Postby Martin » Wed Jun 21, 2006 7:04 am

....
Last edited by Martin on Wed Jul 02, 2008 6:31 am, edited 1 time in total.
Ouch !
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Postby chattichatton » Wed Jun 21, 2006 9:14 am

my fav thing was mountan dew soda the taste was amazing but when they tryed to make it in this country it was rubbish
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Postby Goldielocks » Wed Jun 21, 2006 11:36 pm

Martin wrote:Nope, never played Squash, was too busy fishing.
Talking of "Those Were The Days"....I remember being invited to the C.O.'s house by his son to watch Mary Hopkin sing that. I think the C.O. then was Walker, can't be certain and can't remember his son's name.
Next to us lived The Moodys, the eldest daughters name was Kim and backing onto the main road from Cnoc Moy Gardens was a family called Teal, they had two sons, Graham & Simon I think. Just about opposite us there was an American family called Cole, they had two sons, Dwayne & Wayne, I think.


I lived in Ranachan, didnt have much to do with the Cnoc Moy side did have a friend who's house looked onto the family club though cant remember her name for the life of me think it might have been Rosemary but not sure, Walker was the C. O then and I think the sons name was Christopher again maybe wrong my brother was chummy with him Also Albert (toots) Hutchenson was on base same time as me
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Re: RAF Machrihanish

Postby thomas methvin » Thu Aug 11, 2011 10:31 am

i was stationed there in the mid seventies, the police box by the main gate has a lot to do with the tunnels. the first third of the runway , approaching from the west is operated by specialized hydrallics. this lifts the runway up and opens up an underground airstrip and base , it allows for the landing and take off of specialized aircraft used by the doctor , the police box by the main gate was his private access point of entry. and please dont ask dr who ....
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Re: RAF Machrihanish

Postby four eyes » Fri Aug 12, 2011 9:47 pm

oh no not again :lol: just when I thought it was safe to go back in the water. I repeat there is nothing remotely secret at Machrihanish. Security was never its strong point. Anyone who was there, worked there or was otherwise in the vicinity would know this for for a fact. Can we please stop this discussion now as I'm afraid we may wake cookie up and if that happened things would never be the same.
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Re: RAF Machrihanish

Postby weetoonplodder » Sun Aug 14, 2011 2:56 pm

Just came accross this posting, very interesting, I think you need to have serious discussions with Ninja Mania and ask him what all he was doing out there from 89 to 91, Im sure I seen him, Musky and others down doing some of the shuttering work on the secret ramp at the bottom of the runway, I know that I definately carried out some services supply work for the underground living quarters, below the Admin-Maintenance block (that big brown building) next to the they Gaydon Hanger, I remember one day coming accross a large detachment of that very top-secret group called the "Rupert's" carrying out manouvers while I was working down there so, quite possibly there were other little green men down there too.

Funny that I should read this now, because just about this time of year some 20years ago in 91 there was another hushed up secret, that was denied in the local and I think national papers when I came out, I was up the top of the parashute tower and there was an seal team exercise on, a few of us were watching them parachute out the back of a Herc and as we watched, one dropped like a stone, the shute didnt open and he just hit the ground about 600m from where we were, that was reported in the courier the next week and denied saying it was a supply bag, but I can tell you that was no supply bag, that was human, so yes its true , there were some secrets out there
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Re: RAF Machrihanish

Postby four eyes » Sat Aug 20, 2011 1:21 pm

600m, good eyesight you got there plodder,with a scope i could just about make out a target at 500.that was 30 years ago before the advances in technology we have today. Anything approaching proof on this one?or just another story.There were no facilities at the base to store dead service personnel,so maybe someone in town would have seen the body if it was one.
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Re: RAF Machrihanish

Postby weetoonplodder » Sat Aug 20, 2011 2:47 pm

Aye well Four Eyes,

its quite easy to see about 600m when you have got good eye sight and you just happen to be 110feet up in the air looking down on what happened, and anyway it might not have been that far,but was def over 400m away, as for proof well as I told you, I was not the only one that witnessed it and it was also in the Local Courier, and witnessed by others outside the base who seen it looking through binoculars/telescope (that was part of the courier story). If you wanna know wat happened next, An army truck drove down the runway, and stopped 3 people got out, the examined the object for a few mins, put a blanket over it and put it in the back of the truck, you dont exactly do that to a supplies store whose parachute has failed to open.

Im pretty sure Ninja Mania would have been on the Admin-Maintenance site that day too, if not then he would definitely have been on the base working on another site, so maybe he can confirm it, but there was at least half a dozen of us seen it. to say we had a birds eye view of it was an understatement and it was also a bright sunny summers day so no way you could mistake what had happened,

As for the storage of dead personnel at the base, then I really cannot answer that one, but I was pretty sure there was a mortuary there, thought it was at the back of the ambulance station beside the boilers if i mind right, and if not then just maybe they stored them in the same place they stored the victims of the Mull of Kintyre helicopter crash (in the Gaydon Hanger).

So no its not just another silly story about the base
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Re: RAF Machrihanish

Postby Iain » Sat Aug 20, 2011 4:30 pm

Perhaps my military service has made me more curious than most..., as such, I had only finished the first two paragraphs of that URL when it dawned on me that this thread could easily have been encouraged by espionage. Even a “tissue” of information is of importance ! As such..., any Forum family comments could divulge dearly needed secrets.

I don’t want to seem alarmist as I’m just about certain that the Russians and more especially the Chinese know more about the region than anyone living in the area..., past, or present !
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Re: RAF Machrihanish

Postby four eyes » Sat Aug 20, 2011 4:56 pm

Date of alleged accident please with link to courier article.How high was herc? Did body hit tarmac? If its that easy to see 600 m,how come i need a scope to hit a target at that sort of distance. A body hitting concrete from height would be awfull messy,maybe a shovel would be needed to remove it. They also get Very smelly after a day or so of sitting around,what time of year was this?Normal procedure after a fatality is an enquiry,not just scoop up mess and deny.im curious get back to me.
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Re: RAF Machrihanish

Postby weetoonplodder » Sat Aug 20, 2011 5:41 pm

if you re-read my first and last posting four eyes it says that it was this time of year and a hot sunny day so Id assume from that that I meant July/August time, as for the height of the Herc, I dont know exactly but we could easily see them coming out the back door, never said it hit the concrete, as for enquiries, well some things are never investigated are they, especially if it was a navy seal, bet they never left 21bodies sitting on the mull for a few days, did they, na they were scooped up and in the hanger within 24hrs.

as for the Date in the courier, speak to them about it, im sure they will have it in their archives so you can trot down and have a look see, im sure it was July/August 91, of not then check 90

as for you needing a scope to hit something at 600m, well then it depends on what size of thing ur hitting, where ur hitting it and how good your eyes are, but as i pointed out in my last post, it might not have been that far but was over 400m, maybe if ur having difficulty seeing a trip to A G Barr might be advised, I recently had to go there myself for my first pair of glasses but they are only for close up reading, my long range vision was bang on they said, and as also pointed out, I was 110feet in the air so had a good view looking down on it when they hit ground zero.
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Re: RAF Machrihanish

Postby four eyes » Mon Aug 22, 2011 2:44 pm

As you seem to think hitting something at 600 metres is a doddle i insert a quote from a northern friend.

"By no means I'm certainly not a SVD expert, but I quess I know a little bit of SVD - Snayperskaya Vintovka Dragunova (Dragunov's Sniper Rifle) or "Dragu" as we have nicknamed it, since I have instructed some military snipers to use it during some years.

First some background; the Russian made SVD with PSO-1 is secondary sniper rifle or sniper weapons system (if you want call rifle, its optics & gear, ammo etc... with more sophisticated term), primary being TRG-42 with Zeiss 3-12x56 SSG-P, with the exception of paratroopers in Finland. Red Berets alias paras use SVD as their primary sniper rifle, not TRG-42s. The reason for this is simple, SVD is much lighter & easier to jump with than TRG. Furthermore, parasnipers are not trained to shoot further than 600 meters, which is the maximum distance to shoot SVD accurately; I know 'cause I have also instructed parasnipers, even though I'm a Black Beret myself.

As somebody propably already mentioned SVD has been designed in 1963 and it is the first purpose built sniper rifle (SWS) and was meant originally for designated marksmen; using US terminology. SVD's character is more like a long range assault rifle than a true sniper rifle and in that particular context it should be judged.

There has been a lot of mystical legend of the accuracy of SVD. Some one quoted Jane's that an SVD has a 90% chance of hitting its target at 300yds, 80% @ 500, 60% @ 700, 50% @ 800, and 20% @ 1,000. Personally, I think that Jane's has made a mistake, since the hitting probabilities they state are crap. I would be more than happy, if Jane's could find me a fellow who could do that - I would provide test SVDs from the Army's stock. The reality is this: SVD roughly shoots 15 cm (5,9") groups at 300 meters, 30 cm (11,8") groups at 600 meters and you can hit a man sized target at 800 meters (if you are lucky and environmental elements are on your side). Dragu has stadia lines up 1000 meters and aiming point up to 1300 meters in PSO-1 reticle (stadia lines are for 1,7 meters tall person), but you really cannot hit anything beyond 800 meters and 600 meters is the longest distance, in which snipers shoot their qualifications. The max. distance I can shoot decent scores with Dragu is 600 meters, but Dragu is fun to shoot e.g. moving target at 150 meters - you can really easily hit a target sized 40 cm (15,7") x 45 cm (17,7") always.

Note: Only sniper in the whole army can shoot under 20 cm (7,8") groups with Dragu (SVD) at 700 meters - some American snipers have met him and they know how good this guy really is. If some one claims to shoot better than that, then welcome to Häyhä Shooout to show it next year.

There are number of rounds for SVD.

Somebody explained about Russian cartridges being only specially made for SVD. Yes, there are some made only for SVD, but impossible to get. The more common Russian cartridge that is used and delivered to troops in all countries that use SVD is 9,6 grams bullet (148 grains) with the muzzle velocity is 830 meters per second. This cartridge is not a match ammo. It is used almost in every Russian rifle caliber weapons and it comes green 440 rds can. The bullets have steel core, either coppered iron shell or steel shell. They are packed for 20 rds paperwrappings and tied. There are 22 of these 20 rds tied paperwrappings in the green 440 rds can. Moreover there are two green 440 rds cans in the wooden transportation box, consisting alltogether 880 rds.

There was also 7N1 9,8 gram (152 grain) rifle match ammo developed in the 1965, which was at least issued to the Soviet sniper troops in some quantities. However, this ammo was dedicated only for SVDs made before 1972. After 1972 the Soviets changed the rifling in SVDs and developed a new ammo 7N14 with armour piercing core for post-1972 SVD rifles. Therefore there exits two different barrel twist for SVD pre-72 and post-72. If you shoot 7N1 ammo with post-72 rifle, you really don't hit anything and vice versa using 7N14 ammo with pre-72. The real problem is that you do not know, which barrel twist you have, unless you check it. Then comes the question of ammo - 7N14 is almost impossible to get, not even Russian sniper troops have it contrary to some media reports and the stocks of 7N1 have been almost used. Hence 9,6 gram (148 grain) ammo is used.

The quality of Russian made Dragus has always been good, whether pre or post 1972 produced rifles. The reason people have brought out quality issue is the simple reason that they haven't known the existance of two different riflings - and the Russian haven't told themselves anybody. Even Finns acidentally noticed and realized it, and then made ammo and rifle tests and measurements.

Russian made Dragus are excellent quality - sometimes worn, but nevertheless out of good quality. The same cannot be said of any other SVD copy.

SVD sws is still good sniper system, when used short distances from 0 meters to 500 meters, with absolute max. target interdiction distance 600 meters. Dragu is not a true sniper rifle, you can easily built a lot of better true sniper rifle out of AR-10 or SR-25, but it is a good designated marksmen and recon sniper rifle, in the way Russians use it.

Izmash Tirg semiauto is a good choice for civilian SVD. shoots well and is accurate, especially in .308 caliber, not 7,62x54R. Romanian variations are not true SVDs, so I don't even bother discuss about them.

The true value of original Russian SVD, with PSO-1 scope, with four mags, bayonet, sling, cleaning kit plus all other tiny accessories is about 2 000 Euros (army stock value), but you cannot get any SVD kits for that price - reason there aren't any for sale, as Russian Federation classifies Dragu as a military weapon, not for sale for private persons, only for armies. But in any case, if you would somehow find an orginal Russian SVD kit for sale, the price would currently be around 4 000 - 5 000 Euros. Maybe Russian army starts to sell their inventories someday or perhaps Finnish army... you just never know for sure.

Shoot well! :smoke:

Cheers,

He shoots a lot better than me,and seems to think 600 is about the max.Ok its possible with a bigger calibre, time,right conditions etc to hit further out but thats not every day shooting. So if im only just able to hit the breast of a man at that distance with a good scope,with the naked eye its going to be hard to determine exactly what your seeing. Im not saying your wrong only that things aint always what they seem.
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Re: RAF Machrihanish

Postby gizmo » Mon Aug 22, 2011 9:30 pm

:roll:

Not sure what that bit of willie waving was about. Weetoonplodder said he saw a human form at 400-600 yards, I think most of us could make something out at that distance without too much of a problem. Whether or not I could knock his hat off with a Russian sniper rifle, I'm not sure.
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Re: RAF Machrihanish

Postby weetoonplodder » Tue Aug 23, 2011 4:04 pm

Thanks Gizmo

I really think that Four Eyes needs to as an even spread of the population if they could make out a friend or someone they knew over a distance of about 300m, thats not any longer than from the royal hotel corner to the War memorial, i think most would say yes they could, so if thats the case then Im dam sure that I can make out a human form over a distance of 400-600m, but Ive given him all the information he needs to go and find out if im right or not, but I def know what I saw, and do you really think that the yanks/ham shanks are gonna admit that they lost one of their elite due to an accident on a remote military base in the west coast of Scotland when it already and did already court controvercy, I dont think so.

Incidentally, if I mind right I think each man in the seals was responsible for packing his own chute
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