Carswell and Campbell families

[Doreen]

Does anyone know anything about the Carswells or Campbells from Garnagrenach, Whitehouse, Kintyre? My ancestors are Margaret Carswell who married Neil Campbell in 1822. Margaret Carswell had 2 brothers, Andrew (born 1799, died 1884 Kilberry) and Robert (born 1803, died 1844)). They each had large families and I know that one of the children, Christina Carswell became the Sub Postmistress at Kilberry. She died in 1933, aged 85 at Kilberry.

Neil Campbell moved away to Greenock, Renfrewshire, but I can't find any record of Margaret Carswell after the births of her children.

Any information would be helpful. I have images from cemetries with details of the deaths of a few Carswells, but it would be interesting if I could get more information about where and how they lived.

Many thanks in advance.

[Shona]

Do you have birth years for Neil and Margaret?

[Doreen]

Neil Campbell was born 6 June 1784, Kilcalmonell (I think) and Margaret Carswell was born 17 August 1793, Glassary. Neil had at least 2 brothers, John, born 17 October 1791, Craignish and Samuel, born 14 January 1793.

Neil and Margaret (sometimes called Peggy) had 10 children, Archibald 1823, James 1825, Flora 1827, Samuel 1828, Andrew 1830, Christian 1831, Marion 1834, Neil 1836, Mary (Sarah) 1838 and Donald 1840.

[Shona]

You've probably got a lot of this, but it's worth posting so that others can see the information and connections.

Marriage of Neil Campbell and Margaret Carswell: 13 April 1822, Kilcalmonell and Kilberry parish. A public member tree on Ancestry says they were married in Gartnagrenach. This farm settlement overlooks West Lock Tarbert - brilliant views. Some of my family lived there in the past.

Birth/baptism of children:
1 Archibald - 2 Dec 1823
2 James - 13 March 1825
3 Flora - 14 Jan 1827
4 Samuel - 16 April 1828
5 Andrew - 5 Feb 1830
6 Christian - 23 Nov 1831
7 Marion - 24 June 1834
8 Neil - 28 April 1836
9 Mary - 8 Feb 1838
(All the above are recorded on Family Search)
10 Donald - 1840
(from 1841/51 census)

1851 census - Whitehouse

Neil Campbell, 51, shoemaker, born Kilmartin
Misy Campbell, 15, born Kilcalmonell
Neil Campbell, 14, born Kilcalmonell
Donald Campbell, 11, born Kilcalmonell

Kilmartin is about seven or eight miles north of Lochgilphead.

This may be of interest - From the Campbeltown Courier 1921 - Neil Paterson, shoemaker, died age 97. From Glenorchy, he left 70 years ago and went to Glasgow briefly and came to Kintyre and continues his trade with the late Mr Currie, Whitehouse. Neil is on my family tree and I have notes to the effect that Mr Currie took over a shoemaking business in Whitehouse - possibly Neil Campbell's?

1851 census - 2 East Stewart Street, Greenock

William Mantell, head, 36, ship's carpenter, born Dailly, Ayr
Flora Mantell, wife, 23, born Kintyre
Samuel Campbell, other relative, 23, ship's carpenter, born Kintyre
NOTE: Flora is Samuel's sister.

1851 census - 63 Main Street, Greenockh

Archibald Campbell, head, 30, shoemaker, born Knapdale
Sarah Campbell, wife, 27, born Knapdale
Agness Campbell, 2, born Greenoch
Archibald Campbell, 7 Months, born Greenoch

1861 census - 166 Meadowside Street, Govan, Glasgow

Samuel Campbell, head, 34, ship's carpenter, born Kilcalmonell
Barbara Campbell, wife, 34, born Kilcalmonell
Isabella Campbell, 1, born Govan

A public tree on Ancestry has the following information. It may be worth you contacting the tree owner for their sources.

Ancestry tree: Margaret, Peggy, Carswell, born/bap 29 September 1795. Died before 1851.
You have her born in Glassary in 1793 - which is close to Kilmartin where Neil was born.
Family Search have 'Margrat' Carswell, born/bap on 18 August 1793 in Kilcalmonell and Kilberry parish - to James Carswell.

The public tree on Ancestry says that Margaret's parents were Florry McAlpine and James Carswell, who were married on 1 August 1793 in Kilcalmonell and Kilberry.

As Margaret and Neil named their second and third children, James and Flora, this fits in with naming traditions.

The cemetery in Gartnagrenach in Whitehouse has a number of Campbell and Carswell headstones. You can get images at Ralstongenealogy.com. One Carwell stone has the folllowing names: James, John, died 1860, age 26, and Robert, died 1844, aged 40.

The tree on ancestry names Neil Campbell's father as Archibald Campbell who was born around 1771. Again this fits in with naming traditions.

Checking Family Search: Archibald Campbell born to Neil Campbell and Christy McLachline on 6 August 1771 in South Knapdale. Once again this fits in with naming traditions - Neil and Margaret named two children Neil and Christian.

The 1841 census had two candidates who fit (assuming Archibald is still alive):

1841 - Shedrium, Kilcalmonell

Archiabld, 70
Marion, 50

1841 - Kilmahunaig, N Knpadale

Archibald, 70, farmer
Mary, 46
Neil, 24
Mary, 20
John, 18
Archibald, 12

Hope some of this may be of use to you.

Shona

[Doreen]

Wow, you've given me a LOT of information there Shona! Where did you find all of that so quickly? I actually have quite a bit of it myself, but it'll take me a wee while to sort through everything you've said to see if I can match it all up.

I wondered if there might still be Carswells or Campbells from those families still living in Kintyre. It's probably time for me to pay another visit to the area. I've been to Gartnagrenach and Whitehouse - very beautiful, and visited various cemetries, but it was quite some time ago.

Many, many thanks. I do appreciate the trouble you've gone to. Any other information you may have/find would be greatly appreciated.

Regards
Doreen

[Shona]

Happy to help. I simply cross-referenced information on Family Search with census records on Ancestry (I'm out of credits on Scotland's People) and also tried to confirm the info on the Public Tree on Ancestry. If you have Ancestry, you should send the tree holder a message to see where they fot their information from.

[Doreen]

I think it might be me on Ancestry. I think I posted many years ago, but haven't subscribed to it since. I'm loathe to keep on buying credits on Scotlandspeople as I've spent rather a lot recently, due to my renewed interest. It just grabs you and you can't let go (at least that's how I find it). It's a great hobby though. Can you give me the name of the public tree on Ancestry and I'll look it up just in case?

Thanks again
Doreen

[Shona]

Agree re SP - I could have bought a small Scottish island with the amount I've spent on that site.

[Tigrib]

We have Neil Campbell (shoemaker)and Peggy Carswell in our tree, which we recently made public on Ancestry, because we could never find the exact birth or baptism record for Neil, born in Kilmartin, only Census returns. Also no death record for Peggy, (alive 1841, but Neil is a widower in 1851). We have recently found his death certificate in 1864 in Greenock, identifying him as shoemaker, widower of Margaret Carswell, parents Archibald Campbell and Christina McColl. There is a Neil Campbell baptised 6.6.1784 in Kilcamonell and Kilberry to Archibald (no mother's name), but that would make him 10 years older.
Is that a possibility? or has anyone got access to prime records for Kilmartin parish, who could help, as we have drawn a blank on IGI, SP and Ancestry.

The next problem is with his parents, Archibald. We had assumed Archibald born about 1771 could be the father of Neil, as he lives close by in 1841 Census, and we had been searching for a Neil Campbell born about 1800 in Kilmartin before we found the death certificate, which points to a date of birth for Neil between 1794 and 1795. But having reasearched marriage banns I found a marriage on 16/12/1782 between Archibald Campbell and Christian McColl in Glenorchy & Inishail, which would match an Archibald born around 1760, and two births (John, 1791, Samuel 1793) both in Craignish. Geographically, is this couple plausible as the parents also of Neil, or do I need to search for another pair of Archibald/Christian/Christina/Christine 10 years later? Any suggestions? Many thanks for help/ advice or information.

[mungo]

Neil Campbell's brother Samuel (from whom I descend) was baptised on 14.Jan.1793 in Barrichbeyan/Barbreck in Craignish (2 entries).He married Mary McCorquodale on 24.Jan.1818 at Clachan in Kilcalmonell.He was living at Gartnagrenach at the time.Their 1st. child Archibald was born on 7.Nov.1818.The other 5 children,-Donald(later Daniel),Ann,Christon,Jane and Colin were born at Lochead (nr.Achahoish),South Knapdale,where they were living;his occupation-workman.In the 1841 census Samuel and his family were living in Gartnagrenach;occupation-herd.In the 1851 and 1861 census he was a merchant/grocer in nearby Tarbert.Samuel and his wife Mary are buried in Gartnagrenach graveyard.
Neil Campbell's brother John was baptised in Barrichbeyan,in Craignish on 17.Oct.1791 (again 2 entries).No more is known of him?
If Neil was born in Kilmartin,that is only 5 miles from Barbreck/Barrichbeyan in Craignish,where his brothers were born not long before.
As for their father Archibald;their are several Archibald Campbell's living in and around Gartnagrenach,at this time.In Feb.1800 an Archibald Campbell is recorded as being the tenant at Leamnamuick(next to Gartnagrenach)-could this be him?

[mungo]

Neil Campbell (and Samuel and John's) parents were Archibald Campbell and Christian McColl.Neil appears to be born about 1794 or 1795 in Kilmartin,and marries Peggy Carswell on 13.Apr.1822 in Kilcalmonell and Kilberry.The marriage mentioned by TIGRIB looks very possible.An Archibald Campbell and Christian McColl were married on 16.Dec.1782 (recorded in 2 registers)
1. Glenorchy and Inishail, - 'Archibald Campbell and Chris McColl from Portsonachan'. (Portsonachan is less than 2 miles from Kilchrenan.)
2. Kilchrenan and Dalavich, - 'Arch. Campbell and Christian McColl both in the parish of Kilchrenanioese Booked for proclomations and Married 16th Current'
It appears they may have married in Kilchrenan.(N'ern end of Loch Awe )
In the Kilchrenan and Dalavich register on 2.May.1768 a baptism is recorded,- 'Dugald McColl and Anne McColl in Cruachan had a daughter Baptised named Christian. (Cruachan is less than 4 miles from Kilchrenan.)
Two other Christian McColl's were baptised in 1760 and 1768,both in Lismore island ,some 18 miles away.If the Christian McColl from Cruachan was the one,she would have been only 14 years old when married,(not unheard of then.)Could this explain why the 3 sons were not born untill the early 1790's ! Archibald was probably born about 1760,if this is the correct marriage !
I cannot trace Neil's son's Andrew (born Kilcalmonell 1830 )and Neil (born Kilcalmonell 1836 ), or Samuel's son's Archibald (born Kilcalmonell 1818 ) and Colin (born South Knapdale 1833 ). Did they emigrate ? Many people from this area emigrated to the Ontario area of Canada;especially in the 1840's and 1850's.
Neil 's brother Samuel got married in 1818 in Kilcalmonell;they must have all been living there then !

[Tigrib]

Thank you to mungo for your interesting information regarding Samuel Campbell, brother to Neil Campbell and John Campbell. It would appear therefore, that we may be distant relatives, as my descent is through Neil's Campbell (shoemaker) youngest son Donald (blacksmith) through his daughter Janet, my great grandmother. Was Samuel married more than once? I have him in 1851 with a wife Christian, and in 1861 with a wife Mary, but the names of the children match, ie Jane, Mary and Colin in 1851 and Colin in 1861. I was also wondering whether they (Neil, Samuel and John) had another brother, Archibald, who is to be found co-located with Neil's family in Lagavulin nr Gartnagrenach (Whitehouse) in 1841 Census. I had (maybe erroneously) jumped to the conclusion that this was an elder brother, but have probably committed a genealogical no-no. Wishful thinking - Who knows!?
Anyway, thanks again for posting a reply on this topic. I had not been looking at the Forum for a while and only spotted your input yesterday. It has given us more pointers to follow up, so thank you very much indeed and good hunting with your own further research.

[mungo]

Neil Campbell's brother Samuel only married once,-to Mary McCorquodale in1818. The 1851 census(Ancestry.com) is wrong in that Christian 54 should read as Mary,and Mary 22 should read as Christian.(Christon(ian) was born on 2.June.1825. The 1861 census (Ancestry.com) is wrong in that it implies that Colin Campbell and Mary Scott were married to each other.They were NOT as confirmed by the (findmypast.co.uk) version.
The Archibald Campbell (born in Kilcalmonell in 1795/96) and family,in the 1841 census at Lagooullin or Lagavullin, I don't believe is directly related to our family.Many of the childrens names don't appear to be used by our family;about 40 people were living at this address,at that time;including some MacLachlan's.-I could be wrong !
To Tigrib and others,good luck with your research, and lets hope more information comes our way next year !

[Doreen]

Thanks for your comments, Mungo, re the Campbells. I am descended from Neil Campbell's daughter Christian. It's an interesting family and large too. Neil's wife, Margaret Carswell, and her family also lived at Gartnagrenach. My father's family had holidays in Kintyre in the early 1930s at a place called Grogport. I just wonder if there was still a connection with the Campbells even up to that time? They travelled to the ferry on a horse and cart apparently.

[Tigrib]

Neil Campbell's brother Samuel (from whom I descend) was baptised on 14.Jan.1793 in Barrichbeyan/Barbreck in Craignish (2 entries).He married Mary McCorquodale on 24.Jan.1818 at Clachan in Kilcalmonell.He was living at Gartnagrenach at the time.Their 1st. child Archibald was born on 7.Nov.1818.The other 5 children,-Donald(later Daniel),Ann,Christon,Jane and Colin were born at Lochead (nr.Achahoish),South Knapdale,where they were living;his occupation-workman.In the 1841 census Samuel and his family were living in Gartnagrenach;occupation-herd.In the 1851 and 1861 census he was a merchant/grocer in nearby Tarbert.Samuel and his wife Mary are buried in Gartnagrenach graveyard.
Neil Campbell's brother John was baptised in Barrichbeyan,in Craignish on 17.Oct.1791 (again 2 entries).No more is known of him?

Hello again, Mungo. I have found an image of a memorial stone in the graveyard of Gartnagrenach which has been erected by a John Campbell, baker in Greenock to the memory of his father John Campbell having died in Gartnagrenach on 18 Jun 1825 in his 34th year. (giving a year of birth of abt 1791!).
I don't know whether it is permissible to upload the image here, so I will send you a PM. It virtually leads you straight to the family of John and his descendants, and a possible link to USA and Canada. Based on marriage info and births, this is no doubt John the brother of Samuel and Neil.