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Duke of Argyll Census, 1792

PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2012 2:06 pm
by Shona
I have a copy of the Duke's census for the parish of Killean - and I'm happy to do look-ups for people.

However, does anyone have copies of the other parishes?


Re: Duke of Argyll Census, 1792

PostPosted: Sat Oct 27, 2012 1:23 pm
by Iain
Hi Shona !

Would Tyree interest you ? (no illicit whisky there ! :wink: ) If so, I have the 1776 census (very rare) and eventually the Rental Rolls of 1743 and 47.
They got my Campbeltown McArthurs back to their origines alongside the the McFarlanes.

Re: Duke of Argyll Census, 1792

PostPosted: Sat Oct 27, 2012 6:04 pm
by Shona
Iain wrote:Hi Shona !

Would Tyree interest you ? (no illicit whisky there ! :wink: ) If so, I have the 1776 census (very rare) and eventually the Rental Rolls of 1743 and 47.
They got my Campbeltown McArthurs back to their origines alongside the the McFarlanes.

Oh yes! My gran used to say that my grandfather's 'folks' were from 'Coll, Tiree or somewhere like that'. I was too young then to press her more. One of my McLean lines leads me to Tiree. But, there are just soooooooo many McLeans on the island! I'll dig out my notes and then start a new thread.

Cheers Iain.

Re: Duke of Argyll Census, 1792

PostPosted: Sat Oct 27, 2012 6:19 pm
by Iain
Hi Snona ! Give me till tomorrow because there's quite a lot of additional info to send if you're really interested in Tiree/Tyree.
I'd also like you to PM me with an e-mail address as I prefer not to publish the census here. (I'm not allowed to say where I got it from; lol !) I can't even put it on Ancestry.
Have a nice evening..., Iain.

Re: Duke of Argyll Census, 1792

PostPosted: Sun Oct 28, 2012 1:59 pm
by Iain
Hi Shona !

Thanks to this thread I discovered something which just might interest you. I have a genealogy friend who has helped me enormously with my tree and by pure coincidence it turned out that her husband is my 4th cousin once removed upwards. (sharing the same 3xGr Granddad John McArthur b1767 Tiree: John’s son Neil lived at Fleming’s Land, High Street, Campbeltown)

I’d been surprised that she’d not developed the McArthur line throughout 2012; until at least I looked yesterday while researching a reply for you. Believe it or not but it’s turned out that I too am linked to the McLean’s…, lol ! Although I don’t have much work to do as she’s researched back to about 1100 ! :lol:
Without generalizing, if her nationality was from “across the water” I would have laughed it off as being a little too imaginative…, but as a Scottish professional, her tree must be taken very seriously. Perhaps you might be able to latch onto it ! When I get my head around it I’ll send it on to you.

Anyway, now that it looks as if you’ll be looking northwards to Col and Tyree, the following notes might interest you. (hinged on research for John McArthur; b1767)


Neil McArthur and Tiree:
Born in Helipol; Christened on the 9th of August 1795; died 2nd of August 1872.

Father..., John McArthur born in Sandaig Tiree about 1773 and married Janet McFarlane, born in Helipol 1772. Their marriage took place in Crossapoll. (his residence) Both parents were more than likely crofters somewhere in the Helipol region. (note..., for those who do not know the island; a few hours walk north, south, east or west will get you to the coast)

During the 20-odd years of his life in Tyree, Neil’s existence was certainly not an easy one. Being the eldest child he would certainly have joined his father in farming the little land they had and with health prevailing, both would have spent months away from home. As for the remainder of the year, they would have probably tried to join off-shore fishing teams organized from the mainland.
At the time with Tiree being owned by the Duke of Argyll (a bit of a rogue) and with the bottom falling out of the kelp market, livelihoods became scarce and the islander’s situation was desperate. Also, as the island is flat and rocky with a shallow earth surface incapable of holding down substantial tree roots, (too windy) there were no trees to build boats…, as such, family fishing was limited to lobster, crab and cast-line. About 1816, the population suddenly rocketed to about 4.000 due to all the young men returning to their fathers’ crofts after fighting in the Napoleonic Wars. (population today, ±700) This resulted in many of the islanders falling destitute and starving. As a result, the “Merchants of Glasgow” ‘leant’ on His Grace and thereafter, his tenants were allowed free access to the forests at Loch Sunart on Argylls’ estates in order to cut timber to build fishing boats. (skiffs as they were known) Also, as the peat bogs on Tiree were exhausted, the Tirisdeachs (pronounced cheer-us-choochs’) were permitted to go to Coll and Mull in the summer months to cut peat for winter fuel. As for many of the larger crofts in Tyree, they were sub-divided in the 1820's to provide strips of land, large enough for small families to subsist. Later, the population was decimated between 1836 and 49 following the worst of the famine years…, and many left for Canada, the USA, Australia and New Zealand.

The census in 1841 was the only census to be conducted in the month of June, as such, much of the population were not at home. It was common practice for the head of the family to be accompanied by the older children to go off for a few weeks during the summer to cut and dry the peat, before ferrying it all back in skiffs. Peat cutting would certainly have been considered as their “summer holidays,” even if they did have to work. In the 1841 census for Coll and Mull, there are often families with a remarkable variety of surnames and more inhabitants than usual, not to mention the fact that the enumerator probably missed a lot of the population as many of them would have been sleeping in the outhouses, barns and henhouses. All the other censii before and after 1841 were done during the months of late March and April.
Note: Janet is not recorded in the 1841 census perhaps for this reason, nonetheless, on her “summer holidays” she would have been about 70 years old…, old for those times. John probably died shortly after his last child Alexander b1814, making Janet a 42 year-old widow with some very young children…, and despite Neil being the oldest son and in line to inherit his father's croft, he obviously thought there was more of a chance of a better life on the mainland, in order to help support his mother and siblings. Of course…, that’s just supposition.

With Neil being married in Glasgow in 1819 at the age of 24, and having needed at least a few years to settle down and adapt his trade to a new public, means he probably left Tyree about 1817. Following his departure, it’s his brother John who would have ran the croft before eventually taking it over and getting married in 1831. Note..., to get a ‘flavour’ of the Glasgow region in those times:- In 1817 the newspaper “The Scotsman” was launched / Robert Burns d1796 would still be the talk-of-the-town / bodies disappearing thanks to Burke and Hare / the Strathnaver Clearances / Robert Peel’s Catholic Emancipation Bill / the writings of Sir Walter Scott / etc.

Like my father (with our family living for some time in South Uist) many families on the Western Islands owned a cast-iron shoe stake. As such, it’s more than likely that Neil owned one and having probably watched or perhaps even participated with shoe repairs in Tyree, this would have given him a trade when arriving in Glasgow. As such..., this was to be become a life-time’s occupation.
Once again and using a little guess work, he certainly wouldn’t have had the money to open a shop in Glasgow, but nonetheless, he could very well have found work in a shoe-shop as a cobbler..., and this would have given him access to a wide variety of customers..., including perhaps the Mitchell family.
John Mitchell and Margaret Muir with their daughter Catherine born in Glasgow on the 17th of June 1796..., with Catherine to become Neil’s wife.

Personally, the puzzle is not why Neil left Tyree, as that’s more than evident..., the question is more, why did he move to Campbeltown ? In the meantime, there’s every reason to believe that the Tyree McArthur family had many relatives in “the Wee Toon.”

Anyway, following Neil and Catherine’s move to Campbeltown, they settled down in Flemings Land, on the High Street. Captain John Fleming RN 1772-1849 was an officer alongside Admiral Nelson, and..., “on his return to Campbeltown, Fleming entered the Town Council in 1817 and began to buy and build properties in the Longrow, Bolgam Street, Back Street, St. John’s Street and in the town’s Main Street where his name is commemorated on the gable at The Royal Bank of Scotland where the words “Flemings Land” is imposed above the entry." Neil, without a shadow of a doubt would have found himself with a shop on the ground floor of Flemings Land. (“land” as Emdee once mentioned is the old Scottish dialect word for a building) He’d also have had naval boots and shoes to repair giving him access to a prestigious market.
With an accumulated wealth..., he eventually built a house on the Askomil Walk on the other side of the loch and of course, as a souvenir, he named the house “Tiree.” The house remained in the hands of his descendants until the late 1980’s when it was sold and transformed into apartments. ... 19cd-1.jpg


PS I’ll send the census when I receive your e-mail. :)

Re: Duke of Argyll Census, 1792

PostPosted: Sun Oct 28, 2012 8:19 pm
by duncanmclean1
Hi Shona and Iain,

I was very interested to read this particular thread as it may relate to my own researches into the McLeans of Kintyre. Firstly though, you asked, Shona, whether anyone had other parishes for the 1792 census. I have a copy of the book covering all parishes and would be very happy to look anything up for you. What I also have is details of all McLeans/MacLeans/MacLains in Kintyre up to the year 1800 (and a few beyond) extracted from the 1792 census, OPRs for all the parishes, grave inscriptions, tenancies etc. I've been trying to stitch it together into families without much success so far but it has given me quite a good overview of where there were pockets of McLeans living in the late 1700s.

My own paternal line goes back to John McLean (b. 1752), his son Lachlan (b. Campbeltown, 1789) and grandson John McLean (b. Campbeltown, 1818) then Paisley after that but I don't know when my branch came to Kintyre, why or from where. Coll or Tiree sounds as likely as anywhere as these were part of the Clan MacLean territory for many years. Does this relate to either of own your McLean researches? I would also be interested in the other lady mentioned who you say, Iain, has traced her McLeans back to 1100. This should be possible if she can link her own ancestry into the Clan MacLean chiefly line as this is as far back in time as the clan history seems to go. Kintyre is not regarded as part of MacLean territory but there was some settlement around West Loch Tarbert in medieval times and Alain nan Sop's band of raiders attacked the coast stealing cattle, killing and burning houses in the first half of C16. He was also granted some land in Machrihanish, Clochkeil and the Mull by King James V. Also, I have been DNA tested but apart from a distant relationship with our own Angus Martin of Campbeltown and quite a few Americans it hasn't yet yielded any breakthroughs.

Re: Duke of Argyll Census, 1792

PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2012 6:21 am
by Iain
Extremely interesting Duncan..., with all that I'm sure you'll be able to help Shona find her illicit barrels of whisky in some remote peat bog. :)
Concerning the McLeans and my line..., unfortunately, I have no DNA link with them. My John McArthur b1773 had a grandson called Alexander McArthur 1855-1927. Alexander married Flora Campbell 1865-1927 and Flora’s mother was called Christina McLean; 21 Jun 1819-14 May 1901. (Ruaig, Tyree)
If it’s of any interest to anyone I have a photo of Alexander McArthur and Flora..., just let me know:

The remainder is a simple history lesson taken from the Clan McLean archives:

Jean McLean 1772-1860 (the last indicated as coming from Tyree)
Donald McLean 1729
Ewen Mclean 1670
Lachlan Ban McLean abt 1630
Jean McLean 1610
Charles (Tearlach or Charles of Ardnacross) McLean abt 1585
Allan (of Ardtornish and second of Morvern) McLean abt 1565
Ian Duy (first of Morvern) McLean abt 1540-July 1586
Hector 1469-1523
Hector Odar 1440-1513
Lachlan Og abt 1427
Lachlan Bronneach (7th Cheif) abt 1386 aft 1472
Hector (Roy or Red of the Battles) 6th Chief McLean abt 1368-24 July 1411 (Battle of Harlaw burial Iona)
Lachlan Lubanach (5th Chief) abt 1335-1405
John Dubh of Morvern (4th Clan Chief) abt 1295
Malcolm (3rd Chief) abt 1260
Malise mac Gilleain (2nd Chief) abt 1225
Gillean na Tuaighe (First Chief) McLean abt 1174

Re: Duke of Argyll Census, 1792

PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2012 6:46 pm
by Iain

Alexander McArthur (stonemason) and his wife Flora nee Campbell and dau of Christina McLean... 21 June 1819-14 May 1901; Ruaig, Tyree. On Alexander's lap is their first child of 15 months; Murdoch.

PS Murdoch looks positivly feminine..., lol ! Must check that out ! :wink:

Re: Duke of Argyll Census, 1792

PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2012 10:10 pm
by duncanmclean1
Nice picture Iain, which one do you look most like?! Your paternal line back to Gille eoin, the First Chieftain, is very impressive but you could push it back further still to his predecessor Old Dubhgall of Scone who lived about 1100. According to Nicholas MacLean-Bristol in 'Warriors and Priests' who draws from early Celtic and MacLean genealogies Gille eoin's line is ...
Gille eoin
Maol suthan
Old Dubhgall of Scone

These were not technically MacLeans as the clan had not yet formed but this is as far back as the oral and written Clan MacLean history goes and other clans apparently mocked them for not being able to trace their history back to the legendary High Kings of Ireland (or was it Narnia?).

What would interest me to know though is how your cousin managed to link your (and their) recent family history into the MacLean chiefly line. My own most distant known McLean ancestor had very humble origins.

Re: Duke of Argyll Census, 1792

PostPosted: Tue Oct 30, 2012 5:27 am
by Iain
duncanmclean1 wrote:Nice picture Iain, which one do you look most like?! Your paternal line back to Gille eoin, the First Chieftain, is very impressive

No Duncan..., lol ! You didn't understand: "Concerning the McLeans and my line..., unfortunately, I have no DNA link with them."
Knowing my family roots, they were probably like my Canterbury lot..., organ grinders ! :lol:

Re: Duke of Argyll Census, 1792

PostPosted: Tue Oct 30, 2012 8:30 pm
by duncanmclean1
Sorry Iain, I must have misinterpreted your email but never mind - better the organ-grinder than the monkey!

Re: Duke of Argyll Census, 1792

PostPosted: Mon Feb 25, 2013 1:57 pm
by yvonnewilliams
Please can you tell me if you have the listing of James Drummond. Either Dunoon or Campbeltown.
I just would like more information on my Scottish family
Thank you
Yvonne Williams (nee Drummond)

Re: Duke of Argyll Census, 1792

PostPosted: Sat Aug 31, 2019 1:12 pm
by WattN

I have just joined this site.
I read about the List of inhabitants in 1792 and wondered if anyone who has a copy could do a look up for me?
My ancestors are Henry Wilson and Mary McConnachie (sp?) who were in Carradale near Saddell at this time.
Thank you in advance.

Re: Duke of Argyll Census, 1792

PostPosted: Sun Sep 15, 2019 12:03 pm
by calmac
If anyone is able to help with Macconachy , Killean or Campbeltown I would be very grateful.

Re: Duke of Argyll Census, 1792

PostPosted: Mon Dec 09, 2019 1:20 pm
by calmac
Rootschat has been useful for lookups.