Machrihanish Offshore Windfarm

[kintyre 84]

Agree on a healthy debate. No problems at all in that. In my opinion everyone is entitled to their say.

I attended the meeting in Campbeltown last night and was impressed with the work the group have done in their protest. The speakers spoke extremely well and despite the discussions on here, not one person stood up to speak in favour of the Offshore Windfarm or against the group's aims and objectives despite being given the opportunity to do so.

It is easy enough to come on to this forum and express your thoughts and arguments but maybe a bit harder in person. I have the opinion that anyone who attended either of the meetings this week would agree that the group are intelligent, well informed people who are trying their best to prevent a beautiful, unique part of the world from being spoiled. Not one person spoke against windfarms in general.

I would challenge any of the people who disagree with the group to attend the next public meeting, listen to all the FACTS and then make an informed decision as to whether they still disagree. If people are unable to attend due to distance etc then they should read the groups web page.

[Govangirl]

More grim than Grimm I know!!

What a fantastic post, Loved it!

Govangirl ,as we tend to normally disagree on most things we also tend to ignore each other,but as you have seen fit to reply to my previous post I will do you the courtesy and reply to yours...

Bill, we indeed disagree on most things, it is true, but I thought the ignoring aspect had long gone. I was well aware that you were commenting on Ship's previous comment which is why I referred to it but it was in a facetious manner. One thing about you is that I have found you are always gracious and can see the funny side of things. Regarding the windfarm issue, I am genuinely interested in why people who live in Kintyre would want these eyesores in such a beautiful place - I for one never realised what a visual impact they would make and I have to look at them every day in despair. You clearly love your hometown so I find it interesting that you have no objection to them and I have therefore found your views as valid as every other.
Just wanted to clear that up! Most people find me hard to ignore!

[Sheik Yir Erse]

Bob got to thinking, so he phoned the man from one of the largest companies in the land again.

- Hello there it's Bob from Corby again, remember me?"

- Certainly Bob, what can I do for you?

- Well I have a couple of additional questions you see, I hope you can enlighten me. Firstly, I've sat back and had a wee think about it, and although there will be 400ft mast in my front garden, it kind of pales into insignificance compared to the 8,000ft mast in the front garden at no. 36, or the 4,500ft mast in the garden at no. 18, or that new-fangled nuclear powered mast the lady at no. 54 has in her garden. So I'm getting more used to the idea. It really was only a matter of time before it got to my garden anyway. We've got to keep the Welsh happy haven't we. Everyone else seems to have put up with theirs for a long time (in fact, Mrs Jones has had hers since 1957) so I suppose I'll just need to take my turn like everyone else.

I was also thinking about these people you talk of in the Kingdom of Wales, the ones who will benefit from my phone mast, I assume they have phone masts there too, and they're land is full of them, much like ours?

- Ah, well not quite Bob, you see the people in the Kingdom of Wales aren't really that keen on phone masts, they don't want them there!

- So they don't use mobile phones?

- On the contrary, they love them, that's how their children are going to get those nice fast download speeds - from your mast.

- So there are no masts there at all?

- Well that's not strictly true, there's a 2ft high mast in the back of some Duke's garden. However the village Seer foresaw many terrible acts being visited upon the Kingdom, should a mast ever be erected. Plague, famine, pestilence and plummeting estate prices. It would bring desolation to the land if they were ever built. So they built the little one, and it provided coverage for 2 of the peasants (and obvioulsy a lot of money for the duke) Meanwhile back in Corby Kingdom your village continued to provide coverage for the rest of Wales, much like it has done for many, many years.

- So I assume all the horrible things actually happened after the little one was erected?

- Well, strangely, no.

- Ahh, well that's good. I imagine they built some more then, so they would no longer have to rely on Corby providing them with mobile phone coverage?

- Well, not exactly. They still don't want them. You see the strange thing is all the people of the Kingdom are "very much in favour" of mobile phone masts, just as long as they're somewhere else - like ye old village of Corby. In fact, and you're going to love this bit......if you're really lucky, your mast might even come from Wales, they build them there you see.

- Oh, so they build them and they send them here?

- Yes

- But they don't like them there?

- No

- So if I wanted someone to help me prevent it being built in my front garden, then I should speak to the good people of Wales for some help?

- Not exactly, this may be hard for your to get your head around, but the people of Wales don't really care about your front garden Bob. You're really meant to just continue providing mobile phone coverage to them for as long as they want. The interesting thing is, so many people now have to go and live in Wales (to build the masts to send here) that they'll soon need more mobile phone coverage for all these new people. So the great news for you is...... we'll be back soon to make your mast bigger. We can't hold back the quality of life in Wales you know.

- Wales seems to be the place to be then. One last question, do they have cake there?

- Indeed they do Bob, indeed they do.

[Sheik Yir Erse]

.... and hopefully people do see the irony in the fact the expression "wind-up" includes the word "wind"

[smokynuk]

Very amusing stories Bertie and Sheik and points well made, but im pretty sure Bill gets your point without the multiple posts on the same (humorous) thing and dragging it out to the n'th degree. When you guys make a point you really do like to drill it home dont you?

Bills post sums it up perfectly.

Of course you have never felt "hounded",you agree 100% with the protest group,so though you are not from the area your opinion is accepted.I on the other hand,though born,raised and worked in the town,have a different view point, and as such certain forum members feel that it has nothing to do with me,and as such should refrain from posting.

Youve made your point, Bill hasnt replied and yet the posts keep coming. Ohh, i wonder how on earth he could feel hounded.

And incase any of you are wondering. I dont agree with Bill, but i do think he is entitled to his opinion without having 6 posts to every one if his, directed at him, even though there are other people posting and raising points.

On the otherhand Bill could feel pleased hes garnered so much attention

[Govangirl]

Very amusing stories Bertie and Sheik and points well made, but im pretty sure Bill gets your point without the multiple posts on the same (humorous) thing and dragging it out to the n'th degree. When you guys make a point you really do like to drill it home dont you?
And incase any of you are wondering. I dont agree with Bill, but i do think he is entitled to his opinion without having 6 posts to every one if his, directed at him, even though there are other people posting and raising points.

I'm totally flummoxed here! Sheik is supporting Bill here so where's the hounding?
Or is it just me?

[Sheik Yir Erse]

Like most other readers Smokeynuk probably lost the will to live whilst a quarter of the way thru my post, and just thought life was too short to bother with the rest of it.

i'm guessing the assumption was that it was just another person having a go at the anyone who isn't totally against the plan

[smokynuk]

i'm guessing the assumption was that it was just another person having a go at the anyone who isn't totally against the plan

That was the assumption yes Sheik. If i was wrong to lump you in with the others i apologise

[Bertie]

Smokynuk, I thought my opening paragraph in my post was self explanatory. It was supporting Bill's right to have his say as well as stating that the analogy to follow was tongue in cheek. Sheik then used that to show the opposite side of the argument. Is that not what debate on the forum is all about? I think we both just tried to introduce a bit of levity into the thread. I am interested to know how this constitutes "hounding"?

[Govangirl]

With you all the way, Bertie.

[wanderer]

The fact is that wind farms are a con. They are very inefficient and rely on large subsidies.They also require conventional fossil fuel generators to remain switched on to take up the demand when the wind does not blow sufficiently.The vibrations of the turbines are thought to be felt by dolphins etc and interfere with their radar.Off-shore are more efficient of course but nonetheless, they still cost the tax payer a lot of money in subsidy.
At a time of austerity European governments are cutting back on the massive subsidies given to the renewable sector.
Solar panel farming in Spain is a classic example where investors who piled in are now nursing big losses as the government have reneged on the subsidies paid for the fuel generated, share prices have plummeted, and this is in a land where the sun shines longer than the wind blows!
I would never invest in wind power.

[Mr Plod]

As previously stated by others Windfarms are not economically viable at this time in comparison to Nuclear, Hydro or Gas/Oil/Coal fired power stations.

But at some point in the not too distant future they will start to become more and more of a worthwhile investment FOR THE NATION - NOT PRIVATE INVESTORS!!.

Investors did not jump imto the ring when Nuclear power was envisaged because of the startup costs, the uncertain lifespan of the reactors then available, and the costs of the final decommissioning of the reactors. The only investment available was from the government. Only the government had the wherewithal to invest in Nuclear.

It is therefore imperative that when alternative energy resources are put in place, that it is seen as a LONG TERM INVESTMENT by the duly elected government of this nation and not the get rich quick shareholders and hedge fund gamblers in the financial sector.

Oil and Gas will eventually either run out or become economically unviable to extract from the ground. I am not confident that the big multinationals, or for that matter our self serving politicians at Westminster or Holyrood, will have any kind of contingency plan for when this happens, so alternative energy sources need to be put in place now.

Recently, sick to the back teeth of paying almost £3500 per annum in Gas and Electric just to heat my house, cook my food, and run my white goods, I replaced my gas fire with a dual fuel solid fuel fire bought locally. It is very fuel efficient and burns wood or coal and runs 8 large radiators in my home. If I run it for a few hours I get enough hot water for a couple of days family use. It cost £3000 to buy and install but will pay for itself in 3 years. It now costs me £300 per annum to heat my home and my gas bill has dropped to about £20 per quarter for cooking (I had them install a pre payment meter so I could monitor my costs) only.

At some point in the near future I fully intend getting a small wind turbine to supply my electricity requirements when the wind suffices, and in the 15 years I have lived here in Kintyre the wind has blown solid almost 365 days a year from the North, North west and West, Southwest. There are very few days in the year that it blows from easterly directions, and even fewer when there is no wind.

There are small domestic wind turbines out there which cost a few thousand pounds and would provide more than enough power for my needs, with the extra going into the national grid providing a small but welcome income..

I simply do not want to be sitting (in my dotage) in a house I cannot afford to heat and I cannot afford to run my white goods. I have to invest now for the future.

The utility companies have been ripping off gas and electric customers for years and I no longer wish to participate in their lucrative little scam. The gravy train is approaching the buffers where they are concerned.

I am all for windfarms, but it utterly infuriates me that someone, probably with excellent engineering qualifications but can barely chew bubblegum and walk at the same time. could have created this abysmal plan for siting these windmills just off the coast of Machrihanish bay. A two toed Sloth on mandrax could have seen right from the off that it was going to impact on an area of natural beauty and totally piss everyone off.

The nation badly needs these windmills, and we badly need the jobs they will create, and the extra wealth that it will bring to the local economy.

But we need the people who are planning on building them to take a step back, look again at the intended site, and move it right round the coastal headland out of sight. And by out of sight I mean right round way past the Gauldrons, which in my view is even more stunning than Machrihanish bay. They know exactly to the millimetre where to sight these windmills so as to be below the sea horizon and therefore not visible from the shore. They have evidently chose not to site them this far offshore because of the additional costs involved.

I don't live in machrihanish, but love going out there on my motorbike at sunset and stopping off at the carpark and just chilling out on the beach for a while. I definitely do not want to see the horizon polluted with hundreds of windmills. It's just not right. We all have a duty to preserve our natural heritage for future generations and if that's NIMBY-ISM then tough. It's simply the case that if Machrihanish residents don't stand up to the powers that be, then who will? No-one.

[kowag]

The Kintyre Offshore Windfarm Action Group has obtained a copy of the study commissioned by Scottish Southern Energy Renewables (SSE) to determine the impact on shipping of the proposed Islay and Kintyre Offshore Windfarms. The study was completed by a company called Anatec and has proved to be less than thorough, so the Action Group has written an open letter to SSE detailing the 8 key defects they can see in the study:

1. The study is based on only 28 days of data (8% sample) but the choice of early January data (when there is virtually nil shipping for 7days of that month due to the hangover from the New Year holidays) artificially reduces the traffic density and associated graphics and misreppresents the real picture. You should repeat the sampling data from end January to provide a more honest sample.

2. It is disappointing that this study focuses entirely on shipping carrying the Automatic Identification System, thus ignoring leisure craft and small fishing vessels. I recognise that Anatec recommend a seperate study (and hope the Government insist SSE undertake this) for such craft, but it would be more meaningful to have the complete picture in one document, otherwise for example you are trying to compare and overlay data across two data sets, diluting conclusions and impacts.

3. The report makes vague allusions to "alternative routes that can be taken without adding significantly to voyage distance" but makes no effort to quantify that or the costs associated with it, despite the fact that in both cases the existing sea lanes and associated medium to high risk zones cover the entirety of the proposed windfarm areas, requiring the sea lanes to be rerouted past them.

4. The generalised assertion that "in many cases there is sea room adjacent to the routes for ships to increase their clearance from a wind farm" is preposterous for the Kintyre site as clearly there is no searoom at all to landward of that inshore site and figure 5.4 shows that moving it to the West would impinge on the Islay route and a submarine exercise area.

5. The submarine exercise area gets no analysis at all except for the almost risible statement that "A good lookout is to be kept for them

when passing through these waters"!! This despite the fact it is the most direct transit route for submarines to Faslane and forcing more shipping into this area of "searoom" is logically a greater risk....though how much of a risk we don't know because it was overlooked by Anatec.

6. It is very disappointing that Anatec's high level recommendations blanket cover both sites - taking no account whatever of their differences and features - this is shoddy and superficial. The Kintyre site is only 0.7 nautical miles offshore compared to 7 miles for the Islay site and they have utterly different ship types using the routes, yet no meaningful differentiation is made.

7. The main recommendation is that this study should be used for windfarm "site optimisation". This wholly ignores the main conclusion that "

Development within the Kintyre site will mean that vessels would not be able to use the sheltered coastal route and would have to re-route further to the West which will bring them closer to the larger vessels using the Northbound lanes of the North Channel TSS as well as increasing there (sic) passage times" and the fact that the study shows 100% of the proposed Kintyre site is covered by shipping lanes and zones of medium to very high risk. The study does not state the blindingly obvious - this proposed windfarm site is in the wrong place and it is not the sea lanes that need rerouting but the windfarm.

8. The proposed stakeholder consultation list is deficient. It does not mention representatives of the fishing industry or local sailing clubs in Scotland and Northern Ireland.

This response was copied to MSP Jim Mather, Minister for Energy who responded that the comments had been noted and passed to the relevant departments to consider. Even this flawed study shows that there will be considerable disruption and possible danger to ships no longer able to use the sheltered coastal route...

[bill]

I must admit I was not that surprised to read in the KOWAG website that on average there was only 110 people present over the two public meetings held in Machrihanish and Campbeltown.If you assume that out of the 110 present,at the very least 50% would be couples,then that leaves only in the region of 80 households in attendance.

[Sweltered]

Very interesting article. We have a windfarm down this way, very small in comparison to what is proposed at Machrihanish.
It has never worked at better than 26% capacity since it was erected. Although it gives £50,000 per annum to the local area for eco-projects. Downside is the 50K they give us for eco-crap is paid for out of the subsidy we give to them. The local council use the subsidy to transform 2 houses, using heating systems which they have no intention of using in the rest of their housing stock and which are at best, unproven. It really is a lose/lose stuation and I get the pleasure of paying for this madness.
Minds me a lot of Sweltereds comment of "I have some magic beans for sale". (I have claimed that one as my own down here. Nobody reads the forum down this way. Thanks Alan ).

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