The Kintyre Forum

I am starting this thread as a follow on from the “Kintyre in a Few Words” thread, as it seems to have gone off at a tangent, and there are some interesting points coming out of it that are not exactly within what I would see as being the idea of that particular thread.

I don’t think it is entirely fair to have a go at councillors and others and apportion blame in that way. There are many causes contributing to the dismal picture that is being painted and they are not really within the control of anyone.

Some of this may sound controversial, but if you think about it there may be an element of logic in it:

The advent of mechanised road travel brought prosperity to many places by enabling easy transport of goods and passengers. Did the advent of road travel help to cause the decline in Campbeltown as an industrial centre? When the town was at the height of its prosperity as an industrial and distilling centre in the 19th and early 20th Centuries, the favoured mode of travel to and from places like this was by sea. Campbeltown has arguably one of the finest natural harbours in the British Isles, and it is easy to understand why a settlement grew up at the head of the loch in historical times. Along with this, Kintyre has much prime agricultural land and before government legislation killed it off, it had a huge fishing fleet.

Increased mechanisation in the agricultural industry from the mid 20th Century onwards meant that farming became less labour intensive, and this also has disappeared as a major employer.

If it were not for the narrow isthmus at Tarbert, Kintyre would be an island, and would possibly not have lost sea links with the dense population centres in Central Scotland. Where there is a road, and road transport is possible, then that became the preferred option. It is unfortunate that Campbeltown is at the end of the longest peninsula in the British Isles. If we look at island communities that have realistic ferry links to the mainland, then in many cases there is a degree of prosperity.

There has been much discussion on here about ferry links, and if links were established between Campbeltown and the major population centres i.e. Ayrshire and Northern Ireland, it would make Kintyre less remote. I remember Campbeltown being a bustling place in the summer during the 1960s when the Clyde steamers were running every day, and it may yet be possible to regain that to some extent. Apart from that, ferries running all year round would assist with the setting up of commercial links on both sides, and the growing of businesses in Kintyre. It will be interesting to see what comes out of the current pilot scheme on Road Equivalent Tariff.

It is Kintyre’s geographical position that makes it the attractive place that it is, but it has also contributed to its economic decline. Is there a way round it?

I would nationalise air transport in Scotland. It would interesting to find out, what percentage of people both from Kintyre, and Glasgow can afford the fare.
Campbeltown has as you say "one of the finest harbours in" Scotland. It also enjoys one of the finest airfields in the country.
Yet look at the size of your wee toy town plane - no disrespect intended. The airport is a joke, unused for most of the time,
more people show up at Westport beach. Try telling me there would have a detrimental effect, on numbers of people and goods going both ways. If air fares where subsidised and free.
The road requires immediate upgrading, it is a death-trap. We must take some responsibility ,in demanding what others expect as the norm -at least, when it comes to travel.
Tourism however we may feel about it, is here to stay. Kintyre tourism should specifically target Glasgow.

Sorry EMDEE,

I posted on the other thread, so I'll repost it here.

Kintyre has lost it's way so badly now, it must be obvious that the "Politics of Consensus" don't work in this area.

Maybe it's time for a hard but fair dictatorship to emerge.
As long as it can avoid self interest, it may actually get the whole place moving in one direction, as opposed to going round in ever decreasing circles.

This in no way excludes the community. In fact, the community would remain integral in terms of ideas.
However, at present, it strikes me, that the removal of self interest groups and political correctness is the only way to achieve a unified and sensible 5 or 10 year strategy.

I'm not one for unduly having a go at our elected representitives.
However, they are ultimately there to serve the people of Kintyre, not ride the gravy train.

What we need right now is inspired leadership because IT IS going to take tenacity, some ingenuity, and sheer dogged determination.

Are there any local think tanks ? Not public gatherings which are generally a bit rag tag, but for people who are genuinely innovative to discuss ideas and express opinions in a relaxed atmosphere?

yours, without prejudice, as pointing fingers never solved anything.

£3.73

£3.73 wrote:Maybe it's time for a hard but fair dictatorship to emerge.
As long as it can avoid self interest, it may actually get the whole place moving in one direction, as opposed to going round in ever decreasing circles.

I think that this a very interesting thought, and it brought to mind the following:

When Argyll County Council ran education, before the 1974 reorganisation, there were only three six-year secondary schools in the county - in Campbeltown, Dunoon and Oban. So that meant that lots of young people had to board or endure long journeys to conclude their secondary education. Some still do I know (eg from Colonsay), however, the numbers were vast then.

Then along came Strathclyde Regional Council which took the attitude that what was available in Barrhead should also be there for the children in Bowmore. Six year schooling in Milngavie? - then have it too in Mull. Children living in remote and island communities should have comparable access to secondary schooling, as far as possible, wherever they lived in Strathclyde, was the policy. So Tarbert, Lochgilphead, Bowmore, Tobermory and Tiree (have I missed one?) all became six year secondary schools. And a good thing too - I have heard no-one say we should go back to the previous arrangements. It was a bold, and not inexpensive decision. But the right one. It took brave leadership to drive forward the building programmes and teacher recruitment that was needed, and to close down some hostel accommodation in Oban and Dunoon.

So my - hypothetical - question is: Would the current Council take the same, brave decision? I don't know. This is not meant to be a direct criticism of the current regime, but rather a reflection on the degree of parochialism that seems to pervade local politics in Argyll & Bute. I cannot see a Dunoon councillor taking a decision for the good of Islay if they think that there will be any negative impact at all on their own local community. A recent example is the proposal for the South Uist ferry to go to Mallaig instead of Oban, because that is a shorter sea crossing. Most South Uist businesses are very keen, yet an Oban councillor hit out at this because of the loss of trade to Oban ... forgetting that the service is fundamentally for the people of South Uist, not for Oban's economic benefit!

Anyway - I know that there are good, and unselfish, councillors among the current crop. Those who can stand back and see the bigger picture. I just don't know whether - when push comes to shove - they all take the right decision for the whole of Argyll & Bute. Dealing properly with cases of significant need and priority. Or whether, for most representatives, the sole and overriding motivation is to do only what suits their local area. If that is the case then without Strathclyde Regional Council, Tiree, Islay and Mull would still be without their six-year secondaries.

I should add that the relevance to this thread is:

Political leadership is always going to play some part in the development any area – including Kintyre. Therefore, if we agree that parochialism does exist to a significant degree, then we need to find some way to address it as part of the solution to finding a way forward for Kintyre.

Mary G I totally echo your sentiments.

It's highly unrealistic to throw solutions into the ring without first identifying the underlying problems.

I am strangely reminded of Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy

Deep Thought is a computer that was created by the pan-dimensional, hyper-intelligent race of beings of planet Magrathea to come up with the ultimate answer to Life, the Universe, and Everything. Deep Thought is the size of a small city. When, after seven and a half million years of calculation, the answer finally turns out to be 42, Deep Thought's creators sheepishly realize that they never knew the question and hence what the Ultimate Answer really means.

Deep Thought does not know the ultimate question to Life, the Universe and Everything, but offers to design an even more powerful computer to calculate it.

Good points raised EMDEE, although wasnt it in the news recently that a proposition for a ferry link - Ayr, Campbeltown, Ireland was being proposed? Lets hope that pans out, because it would be a welcome boost to the local economy in light of recent bad news.

On the subject of the roads, my opinion is that they seemed to have ignored everything south of the Kennacraig ferry link. I think its been an ongoing issue for a while recently brought to light in the Courier where someone suggested it was people driving cars fast that caused the roads to deteriorate! (maybe someone has the details of who it was that said it)

Although this location does make it an attractive place, it also makes it one of the most remote places on the mainland. Thats probably why the area maybe hasnt developed the way other areas have, although this may be to the liking of some people (the people who go on about how "untouched" the area is). To me that is the main problem facing the area. Industry seems to try and set up here (Call Centre and Vestas) but upon the end of the government grants they can find cheaper alternatives elsewhere.

I think the biggest asset we have is the airport. I could be wrong but last i heard it had the second longest runway in europe. Surely that counts for something? I dont have an answer but maybe some company can use this to its advantage and bring some much needed commerce to the surrounding area?

smokynuk wrote:I think the biggest asset we have is the airport. I could be wrong but last i heard it had the second longest runway in europe. Surely that counts for something?

Heathrow, followed by Boscombe Down, but then pretty sure it's Machrihanish, yes.

During the 1980s, in the event of a nuclear war RAF Machrihanish was one of the airfields ear-marked for the USA's B52 bombers to safely make landfall, having delivered their eggs to the USSR. For this reason it presumably had one or more Soviet missiles targetted on it.

As for being an asset, I'd agree, but suspect that any proposal to increase the amount of air traffic would be met with no small amount of resistance on the grounds of increased noise.

I hate to be negative ...HONEST

but in a week where Airlines and package tour operators are going out of business in droves, I was wondering if you've really thought this one through ???

.... as for the ferry, unless it's a giant Pedalo ...won't it suffer from increased fuel costs as well ???

Beachcomber wrote:As for being an asset, I'd agree, but suspect that any proposal to increase the amount of air traffic would be met with no small amount of resistance on the grounds of increased noise.

I guess your right Beachcomber, so does that lead to the argument that any developement of similar suggestion would face opposition? Do some people like the town "just as it is" and would shun any sort of developement or commercialisation?

£3.73 wrote:but in a week where Airlines and package tour operators are going out of business in droves, I was wondering if you've really thought this one through ???

LOL I guess the comment wasnt though through But looking at the bigger picture, i guess talking about expansion of a small place like Campbeltown in light of the current world economic situation is difficult!

Everyone has lots of varied and interesting ideas - is there anyway of these being put forward to our local councillors/MSPs? Or putting these ideas forward at a community council meeting etc?

We all want the best for Kintyre but instead of just talking about it can we turn it to action?

elainemck wrote:Everyone has lots of varied and interesting ideas - is there anyway of these being put forward to our local councillors/MSPs? Or putting these ideas forward at a community council meeting etc?

We all want the best for Kintyre but instead of just talking about it can we turn it to action?

Great idea Maybe start with a time a place and everyone meet up to discuss what the best plan of action would be.

Is there already a community council in the town? Or meetings that residents can voice their points of view to Councillors etc? So that we don't reinvent the wheel and all that?

elainemck wrote:Is there already a community council in the town?

Aye, there is.

Malky

Community Council ???

I think what I asked about earlier was a Think Tank !!!

That is an entirely different proposition.

It's not about re-inventing the wheel, it's an apolitical forum for innovative thinkers to come together and exchange opinions and ideas free from party manifestos and self-interest.

I am a programmer to trade. Every problem is merely a "black box" that can be broken down into component parts.
Correctly identifying the problem(s), makes a solution a million times easier to code.

A think tank would ultimately create a sensible, unified way forward for Kintyre.
Councillors are obviously fundamental in this.
They would be much better served with a coherent strategy to argue for.