The Kintyre Forum

Great to hear that the Catholic Adoption Agencies have been given no exemption in the Equality Bill. I think it is both hypocritical and deeply offensive that a church which has been proven to sytematically abuse children in it's care for many years would deny a child a loving home with a Gay couple. My message to all religious leaders is to gather your flock and leave the human rights to those who are not blinded or influenced by the constraints of organised religion and it's lessons in bigotry.

Friend of Dorothy wrote:Great to hear that the Catholic Adoption Agencies have been given no exemption in the Equality Bill. I think it is both hypocritical and deeply offensive that a church which has been proven to sytematically abuse children in it's care for many years would deny a child a loving home with a Gay couple. My message to all religious leaders is to gather your flock and leave the human rights to those who are not blinded or influenced by the constraints of organised religion and it's lessons in bigotry.

But come off it FOD, its naw right having two daddies or two mammies. I mean what do you tell yer mates at School? Bad enough having a mammy and daddy to admit to but telling your mates your mammy is a daddy isn't something we should have to put any poor child through.

PS - I'm not homophobic..

I'm all for gay people having partnerships recognised in law, for financial or beneficiary purposes etc ....

In this instance, the Catholic religion is, I understand, being discriminated against, as they refuse to recognise or condone same sex relations. (ie part of their BELIEF)

Gay will never EVER be "the norm" as gay people make up a small %age of the population. This regretable courting of the gay vote is just cynical manouvering, as per, by politicians. It also paves the way for ANY minority group that feels hard done by to add the ever growing pile of litigation flying around the UK.

Maybe left-handed people can take great exception to anyone who doesn't manufacture a left-handed version of a product .................

Surfbored wrote:I'm all for gay people having partnerships recognised in law, for financial or beneficiary purposes etc ....

In this instance, the Catholic religion is, I understand, being discriminated against, as they refuse to recognise or condone same sex relations. (ie part of their BELIEF)

Just because the catholic religion is not exempt from the new law, it doesn't mean that they will ever give up a child to a same sex couple. To exclude them from the law could also be seen as discrimination of all the other adoption agencies who are bound by the law.

Lets face it, the catholic church does what it wants anyway.

I'm not a fan of any organised religion. I don't believe in being told what i can and cannot do with my life (except in law). I do respect the individuals belief in there chosen faith.

For the catholic church to rule that they will not give up a child to a same sex couple is wrong in my mind, as it is discriminating against two followers of the very religion they are preaching.

Do the catholic church adoption agency give up a child to a couple who are not catholic's?? If they don't, then they themselves are discriminating against couples of other or no religion. (they might well give up a child to couples who are not catholic's, but i would be surprised if they did )

As a single parent, can i adopt a child?? If not, then that is discrimination.

At the end of the day, its the welfare of the child that has to be considered, not religious beliefs.

Surfbored wrote:In this instance, the Catholic religion is, I understand, being discriminated against, as they refuse to recognise or condone same sex relations. (ie part of their BELIEF)

What they're actually saying is that they're above the Law of the Land, and that it's okay for everyone else to be bound by it but they know better and they're not playing. It just doesn't work like that, old luvvy.

Let's face it, some Catholic priests will rodger anything with a pulse that can't get away from them.

daftdog wrote:Do the catholic church adoption agency give up a child to a couple who are not catholic's?? If they don't, then they themselves are discriminating against couples of other or no religion. (they might well give up a child to couples who are not catholic's, but i would be surprised if they did

If the government stands behind the law to make it easy for gay couples to parent children, there should be loads of other options for them besides forcing religious organizations/people to do what they believe is wrong. It seems while people are demanding tolerance and understanding, they should try to be tolerant and understanding of those who don't agree with them also. That is the whole point of tolerance.

Daft, as to your point, would the country be outraged if the government forced the muslim community to hand over their parentless children to be raised as christians? Of course they would, as they should be.

If the Catholic adoption organization is being run on public funds, then there are strings attached to the money. Seems they have three choices, in that case: 1) Live by the strings. 2) Become a self-supporting agency with no public funds. 3) Close.

Bobbie En Tejas wrote:Daft, as to your point, would the country be outraged if the government forced the muslim community to hand over their parentless children to be raised as christians? Of course they would, as they should be.

All adoption agencies should have to abide by the same laws.

I never said the catholic community should give up a child. I was talking about ADOPTION AGENCIES.

No where in my post did i infer that the child would be forced to be brought up in a different religion. If a couple of Christian/Muslim/Jewish/Buddhist beliefs wanted to adopt a child from the Catholic adoption agency and stated they would bring the child up as a catholic, would the CAA let them take the child home???

Its the parents duty to take care of their child and pass on what ever beliefs they have to the child. The physical welfare of the child is of the uppermost importance not religious beliefs of an agency. After all the main job of an agency is to place a child into a loving and stable enviroment.

I don't care if the couple are black, white, pink, green or blue, Catholic, Protestant, Muslim, Buddhist, Jewish or Scientologist's, as long as the child is cared for in the proper manner.

Thus, i say all adoption agencies should be bound by the same laws or do as you suggest.

Bobbie En Tejas wrote:If the Catholic adoption organization is being run on public funds, then there are strings attached to the money. Seems they have three choices, in that case: 1) Live by the strings. 2) Become a self-supporting agency with no public funds. 3) Close.

Although i don't see how number 2 is relevant, as the law is the law, whether you are a public or private company receiving public money or not.

daftdog wrote:Although i don't see how number 2 is relevant, as the law is the law, whether you are a public or private company receiving public money or not.

#2 is relevant because, according to the BBC news report: No Exemption From Gay Rights Law on January 2007, Mr. Blair says, "And that way there can be no exemptions for faith-based adoption agencies offering public funded services from regulations that prevent discrimination." So, it looks like it isn't the law for everyone, but for those agencies offering publicly funded services.

Bobbie En Tejas wrote:

daftdog wrote:Although i don't see how number 2 is relevant, as the law is the law, whether you are a public or private company receiving public money or not.

#2 is relevant because, according to the BBC news report: No Exemption From Gay Rights Law on January 2007, Mr. Blair says, "And that way there can be no exemptions for faith-based adoption agencies offering public funded services from regulations that prevent discrimination." So, it looks like it isn't the law for everyone, but for those agencies offering publicly funded services.

Fair enough. In my opinion, the CAA will choose option 3 if they don't receive donations to keep it going, as i can't see them funding it out of their own coffers.

First of all, thank you to the not so Daftdog and Rumpole. As for Surfboard, open your eyes and your heart. That wonderful example of heterosexual of parenthood Mr and Mrs F. West springs to mind. As for the catholic care system.....I have several friends brought up in that 'caring' environment who are now in their 50's and are unable to commit to any kind of physical relationship because they were either RAPED by the good brothers or beaten to a pulp by the Sisters Of Mercy lol!!!! Jock Strap...you say you are not homophobic... I am not anti Catholic but come on......wake up and smell the insence!!!!!

Sorry Bobbie, Rabbits make good parents too!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

lol dorothy! They make parents, indeed.. not sure about good ones.

I don't have a problem with gay people adopting. I have no doubt there are many gay couples who would make excellent parents and many who would make horrible parents.

And like other kids, I'm sure their children DON'T want to hear about their parents' sex lives, and assume they don't have one in the first place.

It was just a comment on the rights of religious people not to become part of what they consider a moral issue. If there are other options, why should they be forced.

Friend of Dorothy wrote:First of all, thank you to the not so Daftdog and Rumpole. As for Surfboard, open your eyes and your heart.

Haha, where to begin ...

erm .... I don't currently BELONG to any organised religion (and if I did, I wouldn't be paying homage to the Vatican), ( so no more raping and pillaging kids material is neccessary !) but I have to concede that in this case, the RCs are being discriminated against. To be blunt, there's no way the government would invoke a legal ruling against eg. ISLAM, in these troubled times.

As for the wider issue, this is only the tip of the "the thou shalt not discriminate against gays or thou shalt find thy ass in court" nonsense being lobbyed by the gay rights movement and endorsed by politicians falling over themselves to whore votes (by courting minority groups) in the forthcoming election. This IS opening the Floodgates of Litigation to ANY minority with an axe to grind.

And btw. this isn't a homophobic rant, just an observation, that the boundary between "utterly sensible" rights for ANYONE in a committed, loving & stable relationship can be distorted & blurred by the demands of the "pink whip militants" ........... and that due to severe BLINKERS ...... any resulting legislation WILL HAVE totally avoidable consequences.

Wake up and smell the real .....

Surfbored wrote:

Friend of Dorothy wrote:First of all, thank you to the not so Daftdog and Rumpole. As for Surfboard, open your eyes and your heart.

thou shalt find thy ass in court

That's a cracking turn of phrase given the subject of the thread