The Kintyre Forum

15 British military personnel taken prisoner. Who really knows, who or what to lay blame. Perhaps Ive missed some relative reporting, however I have yet to see some indication as to the whereabouts of the Iraqi Merchant ship. Are they allowed to sail in Iranian waters?, if not then this fact would contradict the Iranian version of events.
If yes, then that changes things. Where was the Merchant ship sailing from and heading too?.

Got to agree with you there,all the facts are definately not in.But would they ever be?
Joe public is in favour of using force to rescue them if neccessary.No doubt covert.
Is this what Tony Blair means by Taking things into a" differant phase",if diplomacy fails?
I suspect special forces will be involved,or are they already?
When does diplomacy fail?I suspect that if force was used Iran would be a wee bitty peeved by it all,and their reaction would be negative.
I hope sanity rules the day,as to what that is..........!

Dont care.

Brit ship was in either Iraqi or Iranian water - shouldnt be there either way.

If the Brit army is to be used for checking for stolen motors shouldnt they be doing that round London, B'ham, Manchester, Glasgow etc??????????

Current Bun ran piece re ''Give back Mommy'' as there is a mother amongst the 15 - she should have thought about that first in my opinion before joining up, hubby is in forces as well so no need for the wee tyke to be having potentially a very large burden on her at a very young age because of the selfishness, gungho-ness and greed of a mother.

Bam.

In the world of the conspiracy theorists, this was a set up to allow king george to get into Iran.

Hadrians hiring! wrote:Dont care.

Brit ship was in either Iraqi or Iranian water - shouldnt be there either way.

If the Brit army is to be used for checking for stolen motors shouldnt they be doing that round London, B'ham, Manchester, Glasgow etc??????????

Current Bun ran piece re ''Give back Mommy'' as there is a mother amongst the 15 - she should have thought about that first in my opinion before joining up, hubby is in forces as well so no need for the wee tyke to be having potentially a very large burden on her at a very young age because of the selfishness, gungho-ness and greed of a mother.

Bam.

Just curious what your view is on the men who have joined and have had to leave wives and children behind. I was in the Air Force (before children and marriage) and also was a Navy wife for a few years. I have a daughter in Iraq who is a mother. Someone would have had to drag me kicking and screaming from my children, but then, children also suffer when their fathers are gone. I can see so many sides to the issue, and none of it is black and white. It is all shades of grey. I find it difficult to judge another human being for decisions they make when I am not walking in their shoes. I hope they all come back safe.

[quote="Bobbie En Tejas
Just curious what your view is on the men who have joined and have had to leave wives and children behind. I was in the Air Force (before children and marriage) and also was a Navy wife for a few years. I have a daughter in Iraq who is a mother. Someone would have had to drag me kicking and screaming from my children, but then, children also suffer when their fathers are gone. I can see so many sides to the issue, and none of it is black and white. It is all shades of grey. I find it difficult to judge another human being for decisions they make when I am not walking in their shoes. I hope they all come back safe.[/quote]

Bobbie, I am not against the female of the species joining up, they can die as well as a man if that is their job choice, rather that the bambino now has 2 oppertunities to lose a parent not 1, and if you are going to lose 1 it makes more sense to retain the mother.

I have now seen the interview she gave the Beeb a few hours before she got arrested and it only changed my thinking 1 tiny bit as her parents had gone through it all with her before she enlisted. My big gripe after the article was it was going to be like the Falklands all over again with interviews with the parents whining like maggotts ''she didnt join up to die/ be put in peril'' sort of thing when that would be a large part of the job spec you would think.

I can see your point, but there are many, many jobs that come with inherent perils. Truck drivers or police officers in sleepy towns who know what can happen and hope to god it doesn't. Men who work on oil rigs and crabbers, fishermen off your own coast and convenience store workers. Do you say their mothers "whine like maggots" that their child didn't take the job to die? BTW, according to ( http://money.uk.msn.com/Insurance/Insig ... tid=145042 ) the most dangerous job in the UK is window cleaner, who have "more chance of being killed or injured than police, firemen or even soldiers."

I can't promise if something happens to my daughter that I won't "whine like a maggot" (whatever that is), but maybe what they should be saying when they whine like maggots is, ''she didnt join up to die/be put in peril based on a pack of lies.''

I'd like to know where the hell that frigate was when the sailors and marines were being rounded up like cattle by the Iranians.

The RIBs were on their way back to the ship so surely can't have been that far away and would have been visible on the ship's radar, as would the Iranian boats.

Whine like a maggot
I suppose the difference between a window cleaner and a soldier is the later would be expected to kill. Perhaps it would be better to have your son brought home in a box , than a returning hero with blood on their hands.
I agree they should not be in any countries waters- be it Iraq or Iran.
I have little in the way of support for a religious dictatorship, at the end of the day that is up to them, a history of supernatural belief is one we all share. Interestingly from a bystanders point of view, the popularity of such remains evident. Perhaps popularity is an inappropriate term, when considering the mass participation of it's adherents. It appears when you mix three quarters of religion with one of politics, a potent brew, one that's stirred by a controlling priest, and a firebrand politician. The doctrine of Islam contains within it's teachings, a social sense of responsibility to your fellow human beings, a view shared equally between Sunni or Shia. This common ground is the basis for reconciliation between the two sects. Something I would imagine that the other side would not in any way encourage, yet it is the one that can bring both prospects of war and peace together in the same pot, one being easier than two. As a human being I find it intolerable to see slaughter from whatever quarter, it casts a dark shadow on the development of our people, the human race.

Perhaps it would be better to have your son brought home in a box , than a returning hero with blood on their hands.

I do'nt think so! You seriously believe that any parent with a serviceman/woman would agree with that statement?

If anyone has blood on their hands it is Tony "Teflon" Blair.

ionnsaigh wrote:As a human being I find it intolerable to see slaughter from whatever quarter, it casts a dark shadow on the development of our people, the human race.

Ionns, pull yourself together. Of course it is a horrible thing to take the spark of life from another human being, but I can tell you now, if I saw a suicide bomber on his way to a market where 100 women and children will potentially die with him, I'll shoot him myself. And if you wouldn't, then you would have the blood of 100 innocent people on your hands.

Bobbie En Tejas wrote:

ionnsaigh wrote:As a human being I find it intolerable to see slaughter from whatever quarter, it casts a dark shadow on the development of our people, the human race.

Ionns, pull yourself together. Of course it is a horrible thing to take the spark of life from another human being, but I can tell you now, if I saw a suicide bomber on his way to a market where 100 women and children will potentially die with him, I'll shoot him myself. And if you wouldn't, then you would have the blood of 100 innocent people on your hands.

Ah but Bobbie - you have the right to bear arms so of course you could shoot them, and refering to your earlier point , if the market contained 100 men you would let them be????????

Ps looks like they are letting the wifie go because she is a she, you will never have sexual equality that way

If the iranians were going down ''The Great Satan's'' (see, almost April, and New Years resolution intact) way and having show trial followed by execution it would have been most politically correct to top her first.

21 st century -------huh

Well well!! I cant turn my back for a couple of weeks but that ionnsaigh gets all fanatical again. Thankfully none of us live in an environment like the people of Iraq or Iran and maybe the occupation of Iraq is wrong but we all have an opinion and all of them are valid. Thank God I am able to speak my mind and listen to that of others. I fear that this has not been the case in these wonderful, peace loving Islamic countries for some time. I suggest that ionnsaigh, if he feels so strongly, gets a ticket to Baghdad and takes up arms against the invading foces, after all this is what men and women around the world did in response to Franco's grip on Spain. Failing that, just try to accept that the diversity of the human race means that we are all different, in colour, language, politics, sexuallity etc etc.......!!

Friend of Dorothy wrote:Well well!! I cant turn my back for a couple of weeks but that ionnsaigh gets all fanatical again. Thankfully none of us live in an environment like the people of Iraq or Iran and maybe the occupation of Iraq is wrong but we all have an opinion and all of them are valid. Thank God I am able to speak my mind and listen to that of others. I fear that this has not been the case in these wonderful, peace loving Islamic countries for some time. I suggest that ionnsaigh, if he feels so strongly, gets a ticket to Baghdad and takes up arms against the invading foces, after all this is what men and women around the world did in response to Franco's grip on Spain. Failing that, just try to accept that the diversity of the human race means that we are all different, in colour, language, politics, sexuallity etc etc.......!!

Eh, didnt Franco win????????

Plus he kept out of WW2 and stayed in power for a hell of along time. ( not taking sides but pointing out that because you fight something and think you are right does not mean you will win.)
The victors write history anyway and that includes the Crusades for that was wholesale bloodshed and slaughter against the infedel as well for a very long duration and Christianity didnae win that one.


A lot of the thoughts on this are more ''Middle Earth'' than ''Middle East'' and TGS and Tony are fichting Sauron and his hordes -------------- tossers!

Dearest Hadrian.
I think you missed my point It was not about winners or losers. It was about following your convictions or rather ionnsaigh following his convictions. There are no winners in war, it's not like a football match. You dont just jump in the bath them pop into the pub with the lads afterwards