The Kintyre Forum

After watching the news tonight, it is easy to link two of the main stories: an 11 year-old suicide bomber in Afghanistan and the chilling report of the two child attempted murder suspects in Doncaster. Both are victims of their terrible circumstances.
You can bet your last shilling that in the latter case, these boys had horrific upbringings, no parental care and have harmed animals at some time in their short lives. The pair of them are just bairns. I can’t say they are evil but what they did was evil and I fear this could get much worse in our society. Kids at 5 arrive at the school gate broken and violent.
I’m reminded of that great novel, Lord of the Flies – now there was a writer who understood the effect of the lack of rules on children and today we have the reality of that message. One example is how adults are unable to teach social constraints to kids these days.
What can be done? Are there any answers? Are children made violent or are they born like it?

Govangirl wrote:After watching the news tonight, it is easy to link two of the main stories: an 11 year-old suicide bomber in Afghanistan and the chilling report of the two child attempted murder suspects in Doncaster. Both are victims of their terrible circumstances?

Not sure I see the link. The suicide bomber is brainwashed and probably had no thought for self preservation. The two in Doncaster are bullies and with every thought of self preservation I would imagine but victims of circumstances as you say.

Govangirl wrote: Lord of the Flies – now there was a writer who understood the effect of the lack of rules on children.
What can be done? Are there any answers? Are children made violent or are they born like it?

Fabulous book and the film scared me witless.

Really good thread. It happens everywhere, even here. A violent attack planned and filmed by 4 boys recently on a child is being investigated. Hopefully by now they are charged.

Children aren't just attacking other children. Twice in a week I came upon local children while out jogging. The first was whilst jogging down the cutting. Three boys aged around 11 were at the top of the banking above me and threw several boulders at me. One of them landed only a few feet in front of me! If their aim had been a bit more accurate it would have hit me on the head. The second was from a group of boys in 1st year. One decided to be smart and run beside us making a fool of us. We stopped and confronted him while his mates laughed. He walked off but what if he hadn't? Who would have been to blame if it had escalated into something else? If you go to their parents, do they want to know? I have witnessed several instances in the town. Another was a week ago with the same group of boys in 1st year. They were along Bolgam street hitting 2 girls. My son walked these girls along the road, confronting the boys in question. They weren't so brave when faced with someone bigger than them. It's only a matter of time before they get involved with something alot more serious.

EileenH wrote: It's only a matter of time before they get involved with something alot more serious.

I would say what happened to you was serious and hope you contacted the police. It's a small town and these idiots can usually be identified.

I still firmly believe that we now have a proportion of"feral"children in society.Still living at home but abandoned by parent/s to exist on their own without guidance or discipline.The word"respect"has not been taught.It has been proved that in a large number of violence using knives it has been the younger of any gang that has perpetrated the stabbing.Egged on in many cases by older children.They do not fear consequence or retribution as they do not understand it.What the answer is,I do not know.This is just my understanding of the current situation.Very sad.

I know who these boys are. Two of them are in my sons class. I also know their parents and believe me when I see them I will tell them. I'm glad my kids aren't interested in hanging around the streets every night. They go out to specific places and clubs. More parents should encourage their kids to this instead of hanging around wondering what to get up to next. Two of the boys in question were down at the ferry terminal on Sunday night. I had just picked my son up and was on my way home when I noticed a boat had come in and was offloading passengers and there was a coach with people waiting to get onto this boat. I stopped to have a look at the boat and these two boys were marching down the pier, throwing bottles. What must these holidaymakers have thought? They were bragging to my son that they were throwing the bottles at the staff from the boat! Not a policeman in sight! These kids have respectable parents who I would think would want to know what they're up to. So, it's not just the kids that are left to look after themselves that get up to no good.

EileenH, whilst I agree throwing stones is stupid, I'm sure "The Cutting" has seen a lot worse over the years

What happened in Yorkshire is terrible.
The media will milk the story for every last angle and every last second of value they can.
Unfortunately, it's not a new thing either ... Jamie Bulger ???

Children have ALWAYS fought.
Children have ALWAYS thrown stones.
Children have ALWAYS tried to act big in front of their mates.

I can see where you're coming from & I'm not trying to trivialise your experience.
But don't you think you are seeing this through "media-tinted" glasses.
(It's a psychological technique called reframing)

EileenH wrote:It's only a matter of time before they get involved with something alot more serious.

Unbelievable ASSUMPTION

LANDROVER ROGER wrote:I still firmly believe that we now have a proportion of"feral"children in society.Still living at home but abandoned by parent/s to exist on their own without guidance or discipline.The word"respect"has not been taught.It has been proved that in a large number of violence using knives it has been the younger of any gang that has perpetrated the stabbing.Egged on in many cases by older children.They do not fear consequence or retribution as they do not understand it.What the answer is,I do not know.This is just my understanding of the current situation.Very sad.

This is a good post Rog. But again, it's nothing new.

What I would say is that the traditional "family unit" has been increasingly undermined (quite deliberately & cunningly) in the last few decades.

£3.73 wrote:Children have ALWAYS fought.
Children have ALWAYS thrown stones.
Children have ALWAYS tried to act big in front of their mates.

I suppose that makes it right. Does it?

You are trivialising a serious incident. Adults going about their business, stoned and taunted is completely unacceptable and for Ileneh not to report it means that someone may not be so lucky the next time. Her children may be able to look after themselves but not every child can. I can't believe she is going to wait until she sees the parents.

There is a name for what is happening at the moment. It is called Happy Slapping. Young teens and some still in Primary school are assaulting those who they see as weaker than themselves and filmed on their mobile to be shared at a later date with other like minded idiots.

An incident recently where an attack by four boys on one child was planned and filmed. The 12 year old was lured to a location by a boy in primary 7 who himself was under threat of getting beat up unless he did what was asked.The attack carried out by 13 and 14 year olds was viscious and in the eyes of the law was premeditated. It would have been a lot worse if the boy who was being attacked had not managed to get away.

That is not assumption but fact and happened here in Campbeltown.

I haven't condoned anything ! ... perhaps you can point that bit of my posting out to me ?

What I'm doing is putting it in perspective.

I could cite any other incident (whether it happened in Campbeltown or I saw it in the media) to prove any point I happen to want to make ... but any other incident isn't this incident is it ?

I do agree with you however, that if you feel really strongly about something, you should report it to the police.

£3.73 wrote:I haven't condoned anything ! ... perhaps you can point that bit of my posting out to me ?

What I'm doing is putting it in perspective.

I disagree that you put it into perspective. Boys fighting, stone throwing? What has that got to do with assault with a weapon on adults.

I didn't say you condoned anything but in my opinion you were trivialising the issue.

History wrote:Boys fighting, stone throwing? What has that got to do with assault with a weapon on adults.

What assault ?

EileenH wrote:Three boys aged around 11 were at the top of the banking above me and threw several boulders at me. One of them landed only a few feet in front of me! If their aim had been a bit more accurate it would have hit me on the head.

Several points.

1) No-one was actually hit on the head with a boulder. (in fact, anyone big enough to launch a "boulder" at head height deserves to be on Britain's Strongest Man ... I'd have been breaking the 100m record at this point )

2) It ASSUMES the wee clowns were actually aiming for the head. (when they were more likely having a good laugh to themselves).

Anyway, I don't mind a bit of banter & debate, but I'm not going to get into a fight about it.
You might report me !

£3.73 wrote:Anyway, I don't mind a bit of banter & debate, but I'm not going to get into a fight about it.
You might report me !

Even if I knew how I'm not sure who I would report

I'd like to point out a few things £3.73. Yes, children throw stones....these were boulders. They were thrown at me from a very high banking, so they don't need to be strong to throw them at me from that height! Think about it!Whether they were aiming for my head or not is irrelevant. If one had hit my head it could have had very serious consequences. I was told they were throwing sticks down at people who had gone down before me. If we hadn't confronted them then who would have been next? Would they have missed the next time? I bet you wouldn't be sticking up for them if it had been you!
History, I think I know the incident you were talking about that happened to the boy who was lured into the lane. The older boys I was referring to are the same boys involved in the other incidents I was referring to. They were reported to the police for the incident you're referring to but it doesn't seem to have stopped them does it?
As for the two boys on the news. They had already offended and were in foster care. It didn't stop them from doing what they did. Putting them in care hasn't had any effect. They were still roaming around free to do what they wanted. My own son was very seriously assaulted by two 12 year old boys when he was 6. The police were involved and the boys charged. What punishment did they get? I don't know. Apparently my son didn't have any rights in knowing what happened. He's had to live with the injury inflicted upon him. I don't recall doing these things when I was wee. Maybe stealing apples from gardens and knocking doors and running away! Hardly the same thing as this eh!

Ileneh as far as I am aware charges have been brought and if it is the same ones then they should be reported for the incident you were involved in as well. If you decide not to I hope you have success speaking to the parents but I doubt it.

History