fantasy manifesto....

[Tom B]

.....a less exciting thread than the title suggests, but what would be the top 10 non-partisan manifesto promises that would make you vote for any particlular party come the UK election next May (?). Couple of weeks discussion on this thread, whittle it down to top 10, then we can send a link to each of of the parties and invite them to adopt the KFManifesto promises as their own.....If they all do, then we're on to a winner!

I'll start -

- Re-Nationalise the railways
- national price setting for petrol
- don't privatise the post office
- re-open rural and suburban post offices, and help communites survive
- (whoever came up with privatising directory enquiries, remember when it was free, then 20p, all on one number 192)
- Interest free loans to housholders to improve energy efficiency of their houses (paid for by extra tax on excessive energy use)
- legalise and control supply of 'illegal' drugs (wouldn't this cut crime drastically overnight?)

[ionnsaigh]

Nationalise ( Scotland )
Power companies
Oil
Rail
Banks
Building
Road
Air
Prices
Close all - but State run schools
Lower the voting age
Decriminalise all drugs
Wipe out poverty
Build Thousands of new homes per year
Abolish the standing armed forces
Introduce a national wage of £10 per hour
Lower the working week to 30 hours
Guarantee child care provision
All treatment offered freely - at point of need
The means of production transferred to the hands that produce
The introduction of a new Scottish car
Massive public investment in shipbuilding
The age of retirement open from 50 years
The School starting age reduced - and leaving date increased
The Banning of all religious orders
Five new University s - Three of which to be placed in rural Scotland
Free Public transport
Free Gas and Electricity
The creation of a national pharmaceutical industry
Scientific Funding to cure illness and disease
Clean hospitals overflowing with highly trained medical staff
Nationalise all land

[Mod8]

Thread split and edited to get back to Tom B's original question.

[Tom B]

Interesting reading comments on the Question Time thread about differences between parties. That's what I was trying to get to on here - what are the policies that you would set if the purpose was to 'do the right thing' and not just get elected ?(assuming the two are not the same thing...)

They also have to be workable - Ionns I think if you were PM with your policies you would end up closing down every small business, crippling the state with even more debt and many other things besides - unless you can explain how they would be paid for?. There's an episode of the Simpsons where Homer get voted in as mayor after offering lots of free stuff to win votes....he gets caught out in the end.

I do agree that it is increasingly difficult to tell the parties apart, and each are coming up with wheezes that will lure voters. It would be refreshing to see some 'different' policies, that are based on principle

[ionnsaigh]

They also have to be workable - Ionns I think if you were PM with your policies you would end up closing down every small business, crippling the state with even more debt and many other things besides

I think it would be fare to say that small businesses all over the union, are suffering from the current economic capitalist downturn. I don't know the figures however - I would hazard a guess, that they make for grim reading.
The way I see things complete control over the economy, would provide the kick start to the economy, and small business would flourish. People would have money to spend and services to buy.
Lets take a oversimplified view of the economy. One pot in and one pot out.
Oil and gas revenues alone estimates a 12 Billion pounds next year.
Defence spending is outrageously high, when juxtaposed with defence jobs.

Siol nan Gaidheal
Subsidy Junkies?

A few years ago on the instructions of the Conservative Secretary of State for Scotland, the Scottish Office produced a report arguing that Scotland was heavily subsidised by the UK government. Around this time the SNP published its own more credible argument with up-to-date figures soon after, proving that Scotland has contributed a SURPLUS OF BETWEEN £80 AND £90 BILLION to the coffers of the UK exchequer over the period 1974-1994. THIS SURPLUS IS EQUIVALENT TO BETWEEN £16,000 AND £18,000 FOR EVERY PERSON IN SCOTLAND!!! Even on the now roundly discredited Scottish Office methodology the surplus for this period is still a massive £81.2 billion.

[Tom B]

... complete control over the economy, would provide the kick start to the economy, and small business would flourish. People would have money to spend and services to buy.

You see, I think that taking 'complete control over the economy' would would lead to less people taking risks with their own money and employing others, and would end up saying why should I bother? I'll be no better off. The majority of jobs in the UK and Scotland are with small companies.

Lets take a oversimplified view of the economy. One pot in and one pot out.

Fine, I've seen these numbers argued both ways and am not sure of 'the truth.' - but regardless of what inheritance we get from oil or elsewhere, we still need to manage our money in a way that it will last.

[£3.73]

There's only one manifesto pledge I'd like to see .... and it's the biggest FANTASY of them all ...

HERE IS THE TRUTH ...

[ionnsaigh]

Here is the truth

1. Poverty
2. Crime
3. The Lumpen Proletariat
4. Male Dominance
5. Discrimination
6. Poor Care
7. Poor Housing
8. Racism - Sectarianism
9. Bankruptcy
10.Debt
11.Premature Death
12.Preventable Chronic Disease
13.BNP
14.Jack Straw

Yet one gets slated, for daring to call for revolution .

[D.H]

.....a less exciting thread than the title suggests, but what would be the top 10 non-partisan manifesto promises that would make you vote for any particlular party come the UK election next May (?). Couple of weeks discussion on this thread, whittle it down to top 10, then we can send a link to each of of the parties and invite them to adopt the KFManifesto promises as their own.....If they all do, then we're on to a winner!

I'll start -

- Re-Nationalise the railways
- national price setting for petrol
- don't privatise the post office
- re-open rural and suburban post offices, and help communites survive
- (whoever came up with privatising directory enquiries, remember when it was free, then 20p, all on one number 192)
- Interest free loans to housholders to improve energy efficiency of their houses (paid for by extra tax on excessive energy use)
- legalise and control supply of 'illegal' drugs (wouldn't this cut crime drastically overnight?)

Hi Tom B,

I think you should be joining Solidarity. It think you will find like minded people here. http://www.solidarityscotland.org/

Of the costed pledges in the last Scottish parliament election manifesto:
9) BRINGING SCOTLAND’S RAILWAYS BACK INTO PUBLIC OWNERSHIP
11) RENEWABLE ENERGY
Public Ownership And Socialist Strategic Planning Is The Way Forward

You may remember me writing letters to the papers in support of the Postal strike to protect our threatened Royal Mail service, which appears to have one of the highest paid civil servants being brought in to break up the Post Office to privatise it. Can you imagine how much a stamp will cost if we have to pay a free market cost?

You may also remember my letters to encourage the SNP Govt to be brave and set up a publicly owned renewable energy company to research, develop and manufacture renewable technology for domestic and industrial use. I don't think you can leave such important jobs to the 'free market'. If private companies are successful, with the use of graduates from the state funded universities, the richest line their pockets. If they are unsuccessful.....we foot the bill and the people of our planet suffer.

The 'free market' will always serve the needs of the few over the many. It can never give you equality or fairness. It is always greed over need.

I look forward to hearing from you Tom B.

Cheers
Deirdre

"You've got to be red to be green"

[hoochykoochy]

Forgive me if I'm mistaken, but isn't all this nationalisation and state ownership a waste of time when our new industries such as Renewables are being subsidised by the government, yet contracted to foreign companies who bring in very few local staff?? The taxpayers foot the bill for nationalisation, as well as to subsidise foreign companies, yet suffer when the foreigners pull out and the national companies have to streamline and pay people off!

My number one issue for a Manifesto would be to have a law passed that allowed the public, not parliament to have the final say on the passing of laws and bills, and furthermore an greater input into the data that forms those bills and laws! This would be achieved by having daily referendum on political issues, via digital t.v.

Secondly, I would like to see the removal of political party power in Parliament and Government. The Government should be a proportional representation of the countries demographics and not ruled by one party! This would ensure that the public are equally represented and that laws and bills are representative of the countries views.

Items one and two would ensure that we lived in a democracy!!

The planning, construction and administration of a brand new city in Scotland capable of housing at least 250,000 people, creating 100's of thousands of jobs for the scottish unemployed and training companies! With laws to ensure that the low paid and unemployed are guaranteed jobs!

On a local level, the building of a underground tunnel bridge from South Kintyre to Kilmarnock / Irvine via Arran! We can have one to France so why not in South Kintyre?

Finally a complete overhaul of the D.S.S., combining it with the Registry Office so that each and every person in the country has a complete record of their life from birth to death!

[ionnsaigh]

The fundamental concept of a working democracy, would have to include the equal distribution of wealth. Only when we have an equal playing field ( rig ) can we fully participate. The National lottery ( It Could Be You ) requires at least £1 for participation. Those with less can fill the required numbers - however in reality they are denied. Why should the poor vote - given the choice of the lesser of Three evils - isn't really a choice. The law as Thomas Paine put it - should be - only the existence of the will of the people. Who would willingly vote for a slap in the face ( poverty ) time and time again - to be told continually - that this is the democratic process - like it or lump it - that's it - anymore displays of discontentment amounts to treachery. The means of production - have to be retaken - both from the Government and the Multinationals. It's about time the people of Scotland stood up - too whoever - and demanded Human Rights that facilitate Human Needs. Only then can Democracy truly work - in a free and fair Scotland.

[hoochykoochy]

The fundamental concept of a working democracy, would have to include the equal distribution of wealth. Only when we have an equal playing field ( rig ) can we fully participate. The National lottery ( It Could Be You ) requires at least £1 for participation. Those with less can fill the required numbers - however in reality they are denied. Why should the poor vote - given the choice of the lesser of Three evils - isn't really a choice. The law as Thomas Paine put it - should be - only the existence of the will of the people. Who would willingly vote for a slap in the face ( poverty ) time and time again - to be told continually - that this is the democratic process

I could not disagree more.

Democracy has nothing to do with how much money you are paid,or how wealthy you are! How wealthy you are depends on how hard you've worked to educate yourself to get a good job, to get a good salary. Also how you conduct yourself throughout your life is important. True those at the top of the pile do very little to earn their corn, but the middle and upper lower classes probably do work hard and these are the people who have bothered to further themselves by trying to be the best at their jobs.

If those living in the poverty gap have something to complain about maybe they should motivate themselves and stop dreaming about winning millions and take the £104 per year they waste for no reward and put it into starting a small business. Or perhaps save on the carry out at the weekend, or the packets of fags, or indeed stop having kids. Those who live in poverty usually have a good reason for being there and it usually has little to do with the government!

Democracy is the will of the people to work together for the common good, not what we have here in Scotland "take account of the rich and businesses, long dead philosophers, judges and everyone except the people". And might I add, that quoting long dead philosophers that have very little bearing on modern society is another big problem we have in the formation of governance and laws in this country. If we want to "stand up to whoever" perhaps we should stand up to ourselves, take a good long hard look, and stop following the herd! Then maybe we'll get somewhere!

[ionnsaigh]

If those living in the poverty gap have something to complain about maybe they should motivate themselves and stop dreaming about winning millions and take the £104 per year they waste for no reward and put it into starting a small business. Or perhaps save on the carry out at the weekend, or the packets of fags, or indeed stop having kids. Those who live in poverty usually have a good reason for being there and it usually has little to do with the government!

Take Two new born babies call them baby A and baby B.

A - happens to be born to Mrs Mr Doctors - they enjoy a relatively high income - live in a warm comfortable home - and are educated.
B - happens to be born to Mrs Mr Pleb - they struggle on a relatively low income - live in a cold damp rented flat - and are generally uneducated.

Generally speaking A will be brought into a middle class environment
Baby B has a distinct disadvantage - as both have absolutely no say or choice - in the economic circumstances of their parents.
Mrs Mr Doctors where born into the same relatively comfy background ( I recognise that yes - there are exceptions to the rule - however nonetheless ) we are speaking in general terms.
Genetic characteristics are not the only thing inherited from the parents - living conditions are also.
Ever wondered why we have such a strong class system ? Rich Poor and the in-between.
The difference between the rich and poor can't come down to £104 Pounds per year - or a packet of fags.
The rich spend more on their horses.

[blueboyno1]

There is only one thing which will ever bring this country back and that is to stop letting every tom dick and harry in and stop letting them live off us .And before all the pc brigade start tough i would get rid of them as well

[ionnsaigh]

There are Two sides to the coin - what comes in - and what goes out. Scotland has a long history of migration, yet do we think that they went to live off the backs of the particular country - they happened to settle in ? That they where a drain on the resources - no we don't. So lets apply the same set of moral rules - when it comes to Stanislaw or Mohamed.

You have to ask yourself - why people choose to immigrate in the first place. Economic necessity or choice, is I suspect the root cause of people leaving the country of their birth. Your labour is sold to the lowest bidder, out there in the big bad world - that compelling fact is not in the best interest of any worker - regardless the country of birth.
Lets take a completely xenophobic BNP stance - and blame Paddy or Mick - rather than examine the set of circumstances that drove them away from their home in the first place.