Mull of Kintyre®

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Re: Mull of Kintyre®

Postby Lyle from Dallas » Fri Mar 25, 2011 7:01 pm

Fine, fine, pick away at details.
The point I was making with reference to whisky was that at one time in the long distant past, before EU regulations and protection, people generally talked of four styles of whisky. Now SBPete has said that a UK statute (not EU) defines five. And if you ask a marketing man he'll add in a few more as it makes his job easier.
I've just Googled "types of whisky" and came up with a site called "Whiskies of Scotland". Whether this is authoritative or not is irrelevant - it simply serves to show that at least one person (the author) believes it to be true. And one page contains the amazing statement "The whisky producing regions of Scotland can be broken down into seven areas each with their distinct character. They are: Campbeltown, Highland, Island, Islay, Lowland, Speyside and Grain." Ah, so Grain is a region? And just look at their region map to understand the external confusion on where poor old Campbeltown is. Fantastic! :lol:

Returning, yet again, to the OP, what on Earth do people in Kintyre want by way of national or international protection for single tiny creamery that no-one else seems minded to imitate anyway?

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Re: Mull of Kintyre®

Postby Govangirl » Fri Mar 25, 2011 7:47 pm

Whit? :@ Sorry but I've never heard that Grain is a region associated with whisky. SBPete is correct in saying there are five.
As for cheese, I do agree that there is no real need to give it this protection but I also think it should be promoted more.
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Re: Mull of Kintyre®

Postby SBpete » Fri Mar 25, 2011 9:21 pm

I am a marketing man, for two of the 3 Campbeltown distilleries. :wink:
I wasn't picking at details, just pointing out that we (J & A Mitchell and Co Ltd) have worked for a many years to have Campbeltown recognised as a whisky producing region. This was only achieved by us spending over £1 million re-opening the Glengyle distillery, as the Scotch Whisky Association rules state that to be a region you have to have 3 distilleries. I think the actual definition of "Campbeltown" is any distillery within the PA28 postcode, so the map you showed is not accurate.

For info, the SWA are a lobbying body representing the Whisky Industry and the board is made up of the Chairmen of each of the big distilling companies (Diageo, Pernod Ricard etc) thus ensuring that all marketing men should be singing from the same hymn book, and it was the SWA who advise the government on the 2009 regulations.

These regulations have now been accepted by the EU, with America and China also agreeing to them. Hopefully other countries will follow.
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Re: Mull of Kintyre®

Postby SBpete » Fri Mar 25, 2011 9:25 pm

I should add that these regions are only for Malt Whisky (made from malted barley) and distilled in a potstill.
Grain whisky is another category, and is made from any type of grain, and distilled in a continuous column still.
Blended Whisky (Famous Grouse, Johnnie Walker etc) is a mixture of malt and grain whiskies.

again just for info.
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Re: Mull of Kintyre®

Postby Lyle from Dallas » Fri Mar 25, 2011 9:53 pm

@SBPete
Thank goodness - somebody who knows what they're talking about :)
so the map you showed is not accurate.

Actually I'd half-hoped that my comment and smiley would have conveyed that I didn't think so either.

But isn't that indicative of the problem that exists (and that companies like yours must face) in identifying Campbeltown, Mull of Kintyre, and Kintyre to the outside world? So long as stuff like that exists there will still be people who believe "Oh well if it's on the Internet, it must be true".

I'm genuinely interested in what you say about the progressive acceptance of SWA recommendations by UK statute, and then on up to EU. In what form does the EU recognise these? Have we all been talking through holes in our heads in this thread? Is there already a 'protected' status on the use of "Campbeltown"? If so I would assume this is only in connection with the "production, sale and distribution of spirituous liquors" (or similar quasi-legal phrase - everybody can substitute their own to fit). It would in no way be related to cheese, ganseys etc or any of the other things Campbeltonians hold dear to their hearts.

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Re: Mull of Kintyre®

Postby EMDEE » Fri Mar 25, 2011 10:25 pm

Lyle from Dallas wrote:@EMDEE
The naming of "Mull of Kintyre" anything is controversial and far-from well-agreed. Just look at the previous posts in this and other threads about what and where the Mull of Kintyre is. Never mind making the cheese in Ayrshire, is it "dishonest and misleading" to make the cheese in the urban setting of Campbeltown, a good 10-15 miles from what might be called 'the true Mull of Kintyre". It suited the Beatle, for purposes of rhythm and scansion, to call his song "Mull of Kintyre". Prior to that I had never heard of anywhere north of the lighthouse being referred to as the Mull of Kintyre. So should it really be Kintyre cheese, rather than Mull of ..?

Making something locally from local ingredients may be an admirable goal in these days of sustainability and environmental concern. But that is far from being sufficient grounds to acquire any protected status. Even if the EU did grant Kintyre PDO or PGI status how would that influence what is done in Kintyre? Are there really so many fake "Mull of Kintyre" products out there that the creamery/distillery/bakery/whatever suffers losses because of misrepresentation on the part of others? Or do they already sell all they can make? Who would Kintyre be getting protection (the P part of PDO and PGI) from? I think you'd have a very hard job convincing anyone in authority that the biggest threat to commercial success in any Kintyre undertaking comes from impostors.
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What is controversial or “far from well-agreed” about the naming of a product “Mull of Kintyre”? Where is the controversy and who exactly needs to agree to it?

There is no dispute about the geographical location of the Mull of Kintyre. There is, however a widespread misconception on the part of some outwith the peninsula that the “Mull of Kintyre” refers to the whole peninsula from the isthmus at Tarbert to the Mull itself. Contrary to what you say about McCartney’s song, this misconception did, in fact exist prior to 1977, McCartney merely reinforced it. To put this in perspective, let’s not forget that Kintyre has been around for much longer than Paul McCartney, and will be around long after he is gone.

One fact that is indisputable is that the Mull of Kintyre is part of the peninsula of Kintyre, and as such there is nothing wrong with the use of the name for the promotion of local products and events. Probably to a large extent through McCartney’s song, the name “Mull of Kintyre” rather than simply “Kintyre” on local products or events may have more resonance to some outwith the peninsula. This however does not amount to an acceptance or even an implication that the whole peninsula has come to be known as “Mull of Kintyre”, nor is it misleading to the wider public. It has become an iconic local place name, and has come to be representative of the area of which Campbeltown is the main settlement.

I have not stated anywhere on this thread that I think that any Kintyre products should apply for, nor that I think that they would qualify for, any form of protected status. I am aware that it takes a lot more than subjective territorial pride in the produce of an area to gain protection. I have, however, said that the use of the name “Kintyre” or “Mull of Kintyre” would be misleading if adopted for the promotion of products sourced and processed furth of the peninsula, and I don’t see how there can be any dispute about this.
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Re: Mull of Kintyre®

Postby Govangirl » Fri Mar 25, 2011 10:30 pm

@EMDEE
Thank goodness - somebody who knows what they're talking about :D
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Re: Mull of Kintyre®

Postby Lyle from Dallas » Sat Mar 26, 2011 9:52 am

Where is the controversy and who exactly needs to agree to it?

Well, in casual terms I think controversy=misconception, and you'll find that a poster named EMDEE confirms the existence of the misconception. And if the OP wanted some form of external recognition for the cheese, then everyone has to agree to it otherwise it's worthless.

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Re: Mull of Kintyre®

Postby katya » Sat Mar 26, 2011 12:03 pm

With all the talk of defining where the Mull of Kintyre is would this be a good time to mention that Inverloch Cheese markets itself as being from the 'Isle Of Kintyre'? :wink:
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Re: Mull of Kintyre®

Postby Bitter End » Sat Mar 26, 2011 12:43 pm

Thet'll be the Viking Isle ? :lol: -does say 'peninsula of Kintyre' oan its website richt enough .
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Re: Mull of Kintyre®

Postby EMDEE » Sat Mar 26, 2011 5:06 pm

Lyle from Dallas wrote:The naming of "Mull of Kintyre" anything is controversial and far-from well-agreed.


EMDEE wrote:What is controversial or “far from well-agreed” about the naming of a product “Mull of Kintyre”? Where is the controversy and who exactly needs to agree to it?


Lyle from Dallas wrote:
Where is the controversy and who exactly needs to agree to it?

Well, in casual terms I think controversy=misconception, and you'll find that a poster named EMDEE confirms the existence of the misconception. And if the OP wanted some form of external recognition for the cheese, then everyone has to agree to it otherwise it's worthless.


controversy=misconception? :<> The misconception of which I "confirm the existence" is that held by some people outwith the peninsula regarding the location of the Mull of Kintyre. The controversy that you claim exists relates to the naming of the product. You see, they are two different things. In casual terms, a controversy relates to an issue on which there are differing but optional points of view. A misconception relates to an issue where a matter of fact, which is established and known, is misunderstood by someone.

Incidentally, if you refer to my previous post, you will see that I am not a proponent of the cause of protection of local products, as I don't think that is necessary or feasible, although I don't see any reason for any producer not to attempt to do it if they feel that it is commercially advisable and they have a just cause. In other words there's no point in banging on to me about it. You're preaching to the converted here, although you seem to have shifted your argument into semantics.
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Re: Mull of Kintyre®

Postby Lyle from Dallas » Sat Mar 26, 2011 5:36 pm

OK, I guarantee, my last contribution to this thread.

@EMDEE - it appears you and I are in complete agreement on the original post. As you say the suggestion was pointless and impractical. I think my problem was trying let the OP down gently. Rather than say what a useless idea it was, I tried scattering a thousand seeds of doubt in order to encourage them to come to this conclusion themselves. What a waste of good server space that's been over the past few days!

Remind me in future. Shoot from the hip.

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Re: Mull of Kintyre®

Postby EMDEE » Sat Mar 26, 2011 9:55 pm

Bitter End wrote:Thet'll be the Viking Isle ? :lol: -does say 'peninsula of Kintyre' oan its website richt enough .


That was my thought when I first heard of "Isle of Kintyre" cheese.

Inspired by the excellent book of that name? :D
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Re: Mull of Kintyre®

Postby John A » Sun Mar 27, 2011 3:22 am

EMDEE wrote:
Bitter End wrote:Thet'll be the Viking Isle ? :lol: -does say 'peninsula of Kintyre' oan its website richt enough .


That was my thought when I first heard of "Isle of Kintyre" cheese.

Inspired by the excellent book of that name? :D


Should that not be Isle OFF Kintyre then :)

Agree about the excellent book
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Re: Mull of Kintyre®

Postby EMDEE » Sun Mar 27, 2011 9:06 am

John A wrote:Should that not be Isle OFF Kintyre then :)


It could be, but that would be another controversy. :roll:

Their cheeses are excellent too. :D

I might be wrong, but I seem to remember that the original Gigha cheese produced on the island was a Dunlop rather than a Cheddar. :?
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