Wind Turbines

[Flittleson]

People winging and whining on here about farmers erecting wind turbines on their own land need to seriously get a grip. People should be supporting the farmers in these tough times and if overheads can be reduced in this way then surely that should be encouraged?! Or even dare I say it, the farmers might actually make some profit from them, wouldn't that be just terrible!! What people choose to do with their own land is their decision and has absolutely nothing to do with anyone else!! Some people clearly have way too much time on their hands, maybe a few days hard graft on the farm would be good for them.

[russanros]

Most of what you put sounded like a rant, I don't think given the way the UK has supported the dairy farmers you can really say that no one is interested?

....What people choose to do with their own land is their decision and has absolutely nothing to do with anyone else!! ....

Most people who make alterations to their land or property have to submit plans and gain planning permission, are you suggesting these farmers should be above the law?
- it is the underhand way these turbine companies are milking public taxpayers money into creating unaffordable energy which is the problem here, nobody is criticising the farmers, I see several have withdrawn their applications already - some have maybe seen the unpopularity of the schemes and maybe some have realised the wind subsidies are up for review and likely to be cut?

[D10jimmy]

Most of what you put sounded like a rant, I don't think given the way the UK has supported the dairy farmers you can really say that no one is interested?

....What people choose to do with their own land is their decision and has absolutely nothing to do with anyone else!! ....

Most people who make alterations to their land or property have to submit plans and gain planning permission, are you suggesting these farmers should be above the law?
- it is the underhand way these turbine companies are milking public taxpayers money into creating unaffordable energy which is the problem here, nobody is criticising the farmers, I see several have withdrawn their applications already - some have maybe seen the unpopularity of the schemes and maybe some have realised the wind subsidies are up for review and likely to be cut?

I doubt it was meant that farmers are above the law!
But the point some are maybe missing is that some farmers, (ourselfs included) are not involved with these "schemes" you speak of. some of us will/do own 100% of tthe project for our own benefit. Farms (especially dairyfarms) are big power users with a months power usually more than an ordinary house will use in a year. so surely if we can cut that down and be as self sufficient as possible then its got to be a good thing?

I would also doubt that the withdrawal of applications as anything to do with the views of a few nimbys, and would think that the withdrawal will only be temporary.

[WC1]

Two points to make in response to FLittleson's rant and D10jimmy's more measured contribution.

Firstly, what farmers do on their land can and often does impact significantly on others, and may even impact adversely on the economic activities of others. It is only right that what they do should therefore be subject to proper scrutiny through the planning system.

Secondly, a farmer putting up a single, small-scale wind turbine to reduce his/her own energy costs is perfectly reasonable. But the 'feed-in tariff' means that they can sell the excess electricity produced to the grid. Again, no problem with that since from a single, small-scale turbine the excess is likely to be fairly small and the burden on the consumer reasonable. What we are beginning to see, however,is the development of multiple turbines, and often massive, industrial-scale turbines, on individual farms. The purpose of these developments isn't really reducing the farmer's own costs and affording a small profit, but a massive income from the sale of the electricity produced. This is subsidy farming on a massive scale, milking the electricity consumer rather than the coos. That's not the result the feed-in tariff was intended to realise, and some are taking advantage. Others, as has been pointed out, have seen the light and withdrawn their applications, and all credit to them for doing so.

The bottom line is that this whole thing needs proper scrutiny and the subsidy a complete re-evaluation.

[D10jimmy]

Right WC1, My name is James young, and live and work on the Drum Farm.

we put up two small scale turbines (theyre rated at 15kw each) as one wasnt going to meet our average usage over a year. Any power we sell back to the grid is treated as a bonus.

the planning process was hardly simple for us, never mind the ones who are having bother. along side the usual application there was a visual impact assessment (photos taken, and turbines put on to show what it looks like0 and also a noise impact assessment was carried out all at additional cost to ourselfs. all the planning People were very happy with what they saw, and there for approved the application. i know there was no public inquiry etcetc, but it was oll done within the rules, and everyone else is doing the same.

[north beachmore]

There is a fundamental difference between the wind turbines installed at Drum Farm and other industrial sized projects planned within the area. The small scale of these turbines seems not to have made any difference to the general reaction (and this is what has been most interesting in the posts on this thread regarding the Drum Farm turbines). At 21mt to blade tip, these are indeed small scale and are designed to supply a neighboring business. This seems to be exactly what they are doing. If we for a moment look at the alternative whereby Drum Farm was only interested in profit, then we would be looking at 46mt or 70mt or 84mt or larger. Now that would be something to get in a stooshie about. It must be remembered though, that these turbines are a direct result of Government policy. If subsidies were uniform for renewable technologies then we may have seen solar pv or micro hydro at the farm. Both of which would have had a lesser environmental impact and the chances are nobody would have batted an eyelid. Lets not take it out on the farmer trying to offset his energy costs, but lets have a go at government and get them to at least level the playing field or even better shift the emphasis away from onshore and offshore wind. As long as they make it attractive financially, then the 'wind rush' will continue.

[LANDROVER ROGER]

bye

[kintyreturbinewatch]

Interesting posts re Drum Farm. Kintyre Turbine Watch launched a website to be used as a resource for the local community. The objective being to make people aware of what is being planned in the local area. At the outset we decided not to include details of small scale turbine developments that supported a nearby business. But in light of the comments on this forum and requests made to Kintyre Turbine Watch we have decided to update the site with listings of smaller scale wind turbine proposals.
Please keep e-mailing us of any proposals you become aware of.
The planning process is there for everyone to make representations regarding applications. It would be better if everyone used this facility to air thier concerns. It is too late once an application has been passed and the turbines are in the ground.
The high level of subsidies available to wind turbine does affect everyone. It hits you in your ever increasing fuel bills. There are other less intrusive ways of producing renewable energy, but the subsidy system as it stands steers those interested toward wind. This has to change.

Next meeting of Kintyre Turbine Watch; Carradale Village Hall, Thursday 2nd August 2012, 7.30pm. Alan Reid MP attending.

www.kintyreturbinewatch.weebly.com

kintyreturbinewatch@mail.com

[Swedish]

Just been on the kintyre turbine watch page and i had to laugh that the drums two small scale turbines are classed as a windfarm

With it 30kw output that is clearly to help the farmer lower his costs of keeping his dairy farm going producing milk for the local creamery and securing jobs on the farm and local area

would you like to be paying around £500 + a month to produce milk that they only get paid pence for !!! i think not

the kintyre turbine watch needs to check its info is right as they have a farm that has 'withdrawn' planning for a turbine that is going ahead and has gone down all the right planning stages.

[Hels]

Well said FLittleson and James Young.

I don't think either of those individuals were in anyway implying that what farmers choose to do on their own land is outwith the normal planning permission requirements. And obviously the Drum Farm did just that. What surprises me is the really quite ridiculous statements which have been made in response to a farmer trying to run his business in a more economical manner.

One Forum user called the turbines the ugliest thing they had ever seen on a farm. Being born and brought up in a farming family, I was clearly too close to the slurry store and the midden to appreciate their aesthetic beauty of these fine structures!

Another user says that the risk of danger to the drivers on the A83 is a real threat! I don't know a huge amount about the structure of turbines, but I am pretty sure that the incidences of "blade throw" are incredibly rare. I'd recon the risk of being caught under a landslide on the Rest and Be Thankful presents a much more real risk!

Whether FIT's should be available on an equal level for all renewables is debateable. It is certainly not something that this forum can decide or that the Drum Farm folks should have to defend. I would say however that micro-hydro is only viable with a decent sized water course with steady enough flow and I certainly don't see anything of that scale in that area. PV ..... not sure if this is a joke, but the idea that PV on the west coast of Scotland could produce enough energy to milk cows is crazy.

It really worries me that there are people putting so much energy (excuse the pun) into stopping all turbine developments. I can see the justification in an arguement if it is going to have a significant detrimental effect on individuals on a daily basis, but this attitude whereby folk seem to actively be encouraging people to get together to object to every application just strikes me as something that I can't even class as NIMBY-ism, as so many of them are not in the individuals back yard at all!

Those energies could so well be used for more positive purposes within our community!

Finally please stop having a go at the Drum Farm (and before I get kicked down for defending pals or something, I don't even know anyone in the Young Family). Dairy farming is at best marginal, it is hard work and there is little commercial return. Dairy farms are going out of business across the country and I personally would far rather see the ones in Kintyre diversify than sit empty/unused because they can't make ends meet.

[WC1]

Right WC1, My name is James young, and live and work on the Drum Farm.

we put up two small scale turbines (theyre rated at 15kw each) as one wasnt going to meet our average usage over a year. Any power we sell back to the grid is treated as a bonus.

Hello James. Your original post was, as I said, a very measured contribution to the debate here. Your two turbines are more or less what I had in mind when I said I had no problem with the modest scale of some ventures, though I accept that since I spoke in favour of single, small-scale turbines it could have been construed that I was criticising your two. For clarity, I'm not. What I object to are the large, industrial-scale turbines proposed in some places, many of them six times the height of the ones at the Drum with an output clearly designed to generate a big excess.

[kintyreturbinewatch]

Just been on the kintyre turbine watch page and i had to laugh that the drums two small scale turbines are classed as a windfarm

With it 30kw output that is clearly to help the farmer lower his costs of keeping his dairy farm going producing milk for the local creamery and securing jobs on the farm and local area

would you like to be paying around £500 + a month to produce milk that they only get paid pence for !!! i think not

the kintyre turbine watch needs to check its info is right as they have a farm that has 'withdrawn' planning for a turbine that is going ahead and has gone down all the right planning stages.

To respond to 'Swedish', firstly there is no reference to Wind Farms anywhere on the Kintyre Turbine Watch website, only to Wind Turbines. Secondly, the proposals listed as withdrawn are as per their current status as listed on the Argyll and Bute planning portal. If you have insider information that a proposal is being re-submitted, we would love to hear it. Finally, no negative comment was made regarding Drum Farm, only regarding the Government Policy

Whether FIT's should be available on an equal level for all renewables is debateable. It is certainly not something that this forum can decide or that the Drum Farm folks should have to defend. I would say however that micro-hydro is only viable with a decent sized water course with steady enough flow and I certainly don't see anything of that scale in that area. PV ..... not sure if this is a joke, but the idea that PV on the west coast of Scotland could produce enough energy to milk cows is crazy.

If you refer to studies in this area, you will find that even on the west coast of Scotland, PV technology can reach efficiency levels of 15 - 20%, agreed industry levels for wind turbines falls between 15 - 20%. I don't see the difference.

It really worries me that there are people putting so much energy (excuse the pun) into stopping all turbine developments. I can see the justification in an arguement if it is going to have a significant detrimental effect on individuals on a daily basis, but this attitude whereby folk seem to actively be encouraging people to get together to object to every application just strikes me as something that I can't even class as NIMBY-ism, as so many of them are not in the individuals back yard at all!

It really worries us that so many people are being hoodwinked into pushing the wind energy wagon. Furthermore, we all pay for the subsidies through our ever increasing energy bills, therefore are subject to a detrimental effect on a daily basis. There are other technologies, when are they going to get the capital support to flourish or do we have to wait until the whole country is decimated with wind turbines first and everyone is in fuel poverty. NIMBY-ism.... The last argument of the defeated supporter.

The planning process is there for everyone to make representations regarding applications. It would be better if everyone used this facility to air thier concerns. It is too late once an application has been passed and the turbines are in the ground.

[tarmmaker]

Hels, you would be most welcome to the next Kintyre turbine watch meeting on Thursday 2nd August at 7.30pm in Carradale Village Hall. All views on turbines are welcome and open to discussion. The group are not against turbines. Only ones in the wrong place. The Drum farm turbines are just another way of a farmer trying to lower his overheads. In a farm setting these 20m turbines are perfectly reasonable. What the Turbine Watch are against are the huge 100m plus turbines in inappropriate places which really impact on the scenery and enjoyment of our countryside and are only there to make money for investors. The list of turbines on the website is in no way a "hit list",merely an overview of the applications in Kintyre.

[jowett63]

I confess when I first drove past the 2 turbines at Drum I thought Whoa! I still wince when looking back across to Kilkenzie from my daily dog walk route at Machdunes to middle beach - now the both foothills and the crown of the hills at Tangy have turbines. However when I was over at Machrihanish and looked across the Bay to Tangy the 2 turbines were miniscule in comparison to those on the windfarm above - which in turn are small compared to the monsters Burcote plan to inflict on the vale of Glenbarr.

Turbines are all about the balance of benefit and on balance I think the benefits at Drum outweigh the disbenefits of the impact on the visual amenity that we all share and nobody "owns". As an aside there is already a small turbine on the hill above the two new ones that you can hardly discern because it is black and grey....why are these things so obtrusively white?

The difficulty is that one pimple on a lovely face is unremarkable but a hundred pimples is disfiguring. The planners really need to make sure they are giving enough weight to the effect of 'cumulative impact' of single/double turbine applications - especially when considering the entirely shocking rash of 45m single turbines that one speculator/developer has recently tried to ruin the lovely circle of hills around Campbeltown with.

As another aside I notice our dear old friends SSE withdrew from two sizeable hydro developments in the Highlands the minute the government reduced the subsidy for hydro by 30% (a lamentable decision btw)this week. A stark example that all the pious words from the power developers about combating climate change and helping reduce carbon emissions are just sanctimonious guff - it is all about squeezing as much subsidy money as possible for every pound they invest.

[A15 NMA]

why are these things so obtrusively white

Cannot comment on the turbines at the Drum Farm but for your info the majority of the "monsters" are light grey (colour code RAL 7035)