Wind Turbines

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Re: Wind Turbines

Postby russanros » Tue Jul 31, 2012 11:34 pm

A15 NMA wrote:
jowett63 wrote:why are these things so obtrusively white


Cannot comment on the turbines at the Drum Farm but for your info the majority of the "monsters" are light grey (colour code RAL 7035) :oops:

You would think it possible that they could be painted green or 'camo' colours?
- I would also like to reiterate that it is the policy that I disagree with and the intermediary companies making money off the taxpayers, not the farmers as already mentioned about the milk (but that's another outrage!)

As the turbinewatch have said its the 100m ones which really must be avoided, has anyone driven along the M74 around Crawford area recently, there are loads of these big turbines, they look as big as the hills they stand on although they probably aren't :@ there are or will be over a 100 of them: http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lqi9anORDE1qjw2is.jpg -all agian making our electricity cost more than it needs to do. :(
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Re: Wind Turbines

Postby EphemeralDeception » Wed Aug 01, 2012 12:27 am

I find many of the objections and statements of the anti wind posts on here are bemusing. In any case sorry in advance for the long post that follows.

As a background I would like to mention that lots of independent info on Wind and any other system are available to anyone who wishes to look. However solid, peer reviewed information coming from engineers and scientists of many disciplines is hard to find. A good source of useful info can be found here from the openly available course material of next generation engineers at the department for "Nuclear, Plasma and Radiological Engineering", University of Illinois. https://netfiles.uiuc.edu/mragheb/www/N ... %20Systems. Tons of material available and hardly a pro wind department ;)

Please consider the following:
What energy systems are the detractors of wind energy systems (of varying degrees) proposing instead and how do they compare? Why should investors not get a return on their investment? Why is 'any' scale Wind any different for investment than any other large or small scale energy generation?

Small scale wind is one of the best possible types of installation we can make use of in the West coast of Scotland at the moment. However small scale has certainly benefited from the advances, research and investment and competition of the large scale systems. Yet it is also less efficient than larger turbines and less efficient than higher turbines eg 50m high is 30% better than 10m high systems on average. Except we can see a 50m tower much further away...oops. Nevertheless, if Farmers can and should benefit from small scale wind dotted (locally) across the region then why can't businesses in general benifit from more efficient larger scale installations?

Currently only coal and Gas and other carbon sources are cheaper than wind on a large scale.(source linked below)
Hydro can also be cheaper in Scotland but new scope is limited and ofgems rules are not helping. Hydro should be exploited to the max where we can, nevertheless it is only going to be a fraction and not without its own downsides. Just look at Norway who are 98% Hydro and diversifying away from it.

Nuclear Fission is unfortunately a no brainer, economically, as it now has a TCO higher than all of the above + costs are increasing more rapidly than all the rest + all the major long term effects or risks into the bargain. It does provide a business case on a very large scale and has its usefulness for base load. I don't feel these negative aspects mean it should be abandoned all together as a source of supply and there is also the hope of reliable fusion down the road. From a UK perspective there is still maybe a case for Nuclear in the South and as part of energy security of supply (though edf recently pulling out of UK projects and 2x cost overruns elsewhere eg Finland puts this in major doubt). Any UK business case certainly gets weaker or non existent as you go North.

Economics of Wind power
=====================
Figures people quote about wind efficiency, viability and economics can be misleading. However this document provides well balanced coverage based on US data.
https://netfiles.uiuc.edu/mragheb/www/N ... Energy.pdf
Yes it is lower efficiency than Coal, Gas, Nuclear etc. But Nuclear is certainly more expensive than wind on average.
Secondly the lower efficiency of Wind is less detrimental simply because the source itself is free + opex is low. This is what makes the locally generated small scale, but less efficient systems for farmers such a good fit.

I am not going to change any mind here but please don't think wind is going to increase consumer bills over other options. Consumer bills are going to go up anyway, everywhere, bar none, with or without wind. However while the cost for Coal , Gas and Nuclear are going up, renewable costs in general, including wind, are coming down.

Note on GAS (my own opinion): Gas should be the cheaper and is also the cleanest non renewable source. Why is gas still so expensive then? a) base gas price is linked to price of oil. b) In the UK, Scotland (from latest available figures) exports 6 times as much gas as we use to our neighbours. We are an exporter. However the UK is an importer of GAS and the UK(outwith Scotland) gets 40% of its gas supply from Norway, at huge expense via the Sleipner pipeline. The longest in the world and cost a large fortune. The constructors of this ensure its viability due to a trade agreement between the UK and Norway that ensures the costs will be paid back over a long time. This gets passed to the UK consumer, noting though that Scottish consumers have no need whatsoever of this pipeline, cannot receive any of this gas anyway even if we did, but share the costs.

Note on household renewables: These are the least efficient of all but have role to play though in general in Scotland, better insulation and better quality housing has a much better ROI than any self generation alternatives. I find it strange that the building regulations in France and indeed the much warmer South of France has much stricter insulation and energy regulations than we do in Scotland. Go figure. For those who can read french check out the 2012 requirements "La Réglementation Thermique 2012 (RT2012)" http://www.legrenelle-environnement.fr/ ... ,1394.html


If you managed to read all this without falling to sleep, ta!
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Re: Wind Turbines

Postby dustybin » Wed Aug 01, 2012 11:15 am

russanros wrote:
A15 NMA wrote:
jowett63 wrote:why are these things so obtrusively white


Cannot comment on the turbines at the Drum Farm but for your info the majority of the "monsters" are light grey (colour code RAL 7035) :oops:

You would think it possible that they could be painted green or 'camo' colours?

:lol: :lol: Surly it is more important for them to be easly seen for the likes of low flying aircraft! bering in mind most turbines are at the top of hills.
Last edited by dustybin on Wed Aug 01, 2012 11:20 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Wind Turbines

Postby LANDROVER ROGER » Wed Aug 01, 2012 11:19 am

bye
Last edited by LANDROVER ROGER on Mon Aug 06, 2012 1:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Wind Turbines

Postby russanros » Wed Aug 01, 2012 11:40 am

dustybin wrote:
russanros wrote:You would think it possible that they could be painted green or 'camo' colours?

:lol: :lol: Surly it is more important for them to be easly seen for the likes of low flying aircraft! bering in mind most turbines are at the top of hills.

They have lights on top of the taller ones anyway? Tangy certainly does :idea: :wink:
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Re: Wind Turbines

Postby dustybin » Wed Aug 01, 2012 12:33 pm

russanros wrote:
dustybin wrote:
russanros wrote:You would think it possible that they could be painted green or 'camo' colours?

:lol: :lol: Surly it is more important for them to be easly seen for the likes of low flying aircraft! bering in mind most turbines are at the top of hills.

They have lights on top of the taller ones anyway? Tangy certainly does :idea: :wink:

Lights can only be seen at night time when no one can see what colour the turbines are!!! kinda contradicting yourself there :@
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Re: Wind Turbines

Postby tarmmaker » Wed Aug 01, 2012 2:52 pm

The latest turbines have an infra-red light on top. Invisible to the naked eye, but detected by the aircraft instrumentation. I hope!
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Re: Wind Turbines

Postby howlsatthemoon » Wed Aug 01, 2012 3:57 pm

Flittleson wrote:People should be supporting the farmers in these tough times and if overheads can be reduced in this way then surely that should be encouraged?! Or even dare I say it, the farmers might actually make some profit from them, wouldn't that be just terrible!!


I have yet to meet a poor farmer :wink: :wink:
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Re: Wind Turbines

Postby russanros » Wed Aug 01, 2012 11:40 pm

tarmmaker wrote:The latest turbines have an infra-red light on top. Invisible to the naked eye, but detected by the aircraft instrumentation. I hope!

You would certainly hope that there is more to it than aircraft being driven on line of sight alone, as there would of course be certain weather conditions where even the white and/or grey turbines would be camoflauged, low cloud, mist heavy rain etc. etc.

Though Im no avaiation expert you would also think any plane close enough to come into contact with a turbine would also be 'too close' to the ground to be safe anyway, even with the bigger turbines?
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Re: Wind Turbines

Postby north beachmore » Mon Aug 06, 2012 10:51 am

Watch the video, The Turbines are Coming

This really shows why the Scottish Government guidelines of a 2km minimum separation from dwellings should be legislation and not just a guideline.

http://youtu.be/OyNDgoH5dBI
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Re: Wind Turbines

Postby Isa » Mon Aug 06, 2012 12:51 pm

Reminds me of Steven King's "The Langoliers" They're coming to get us :<>
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Re: Wind Turbines

Postby witchnettle » Wed Aug 08, 2012 8:01 am

my son went to france last year from hull and he said on the continent the windmills were green/grey half way up then blue/grey the rest of the way or that effect anyway
he said it worked really well
x
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Re: Wind Turbines

Postby kintyreturbinewatch » Fri Aug 17, 2012 4:16 pm

As a result of the public exhibitions to be held in Whitehouse, Glenbarr and Campbeltown by RES regarding their intentions to develop wind farms at Freasdail and Blary Hill, we have organised a public meeting for the community to air their concerns at Glenbarr Mission Hall, Glenbarr on Wednesday 29th August at 7.30pm. We hope to have a selection of local and national government representatives present. Please come along, all welcome
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Re: Wind Turbines

Postby kintyreturbinewatch » Wed Aug 22, 2012 8:18 pm

Something to think about when viewing photomontages, an article in todays Telegraph which can be found on this link near bottom of the page...
http://kintyreturbinewatch.weebly.com/
Wind farm developers using 'tricks' to make turbines look smaller
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Re: Wind Turbines

Postby kintyreturbinewatch » Thu Aug 23, 2012 8:29 pm

New petition launched- Too Close To The Coast
We recognize the need for renewable energies, however we are very concerned about the level of wind turbine proposals within Kintyre, of which, the scale and location show a total disregard for our communities. Our main concern is the lack of suitable no go areas for wind turbine development. The majority of residences, business activity and tourist activity fall within a 2km strip around our coast. We request that a change is made to the local plan so that no wind farm development can take place within 2km of this area.
Please sign our online petition
http://kintyreturbinewatch.weebly.com/
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