Your views wanted on the site for the new Campbeltown Gramma

[Kintyre Forum News]

Your views wanted on the site for the new Campbeltown Grammar School

The consultation process for choosing a site for the new Campbeltown Grammar School is getting underway on Wednesday 7 November and will finish on Friday 30 November. Whether you are a pupil, parent, member of staff or an interested member of the community it is important to make your views known on the four short listed sites and there will be several opportunities to do so.

Launch night is on Wednesday 7 November and you are invited to Campbeltown Grammar School between 7pm and 9pm to find out more. Council staff will be on hand to explain the site, design and layout options.

Alternatively there are three open days where the same information will be available. These will be held at Aqualibrium in Campbeltown on Thursday 8 November between 10 am and 8pm, Friday 9 November between 10 am and 4pm and on Saturday 10 November between 10 am and 12pm.

Written displays with information on each of the four possible sites will be in Campbeltown Grammar School and the council’s Customer Service Point, in the Burnet Building, throughout the consultation.

You can get involved by filling in a consultation response and sending it back to us. These will be available at each of the events being held and also at Campbeltown Grammar School, any of the local primary schools in the Campbeltown Grammar School catchment area or the Burnet building.

Alternatively, from 7 November, you can complete an online response form at http://www.argyll-bute.gov.uk/cgs-consultation and there’ll be more information here during the consultation as well.

Lead Councillor for Education and Lifelong Learning, Michael Breslin said “This is a significant development for Campbeltown and I would emphasise this is your chance to have your say in the future site for the new secondary school. We are making it as easy as we can for you to get involved so your opinions will contribute to the final decision made by the council.

“We recognise how important the education of your children is and look forward to hearing your views on this exciting investment in the town’s future.”

The four potential sites are the existing Grammar School and playing fields, Kinloch Park, The Meadows playing fields and the combined site of The Meadows playing fields and the ground adjacent to Campbeltown Hospital.

The original list of eleven sites was produced after pupils, staff, councillors, partner agencies like Argyll Community Housing Association (ACHA), Strathclyde Fire and Rescue, Argyll and the Isles enterprise, Argyll College and local businesses had their say. An appraisal process was followed which reduced the original eleven sites to the four that are being presented for public consultation.

[MJ]

To me the only site that makes any sense would be the existing Grammar School site. It's already got half the infrastructure, ie the bus turning area and path. Kinloch green?! With the all weather pitch and Aqualibrium already there there would be no green left! Meadows would be a possibility, but surely the flooding there would be a potential problem? Field next to the hospital: Where would the helicopter land then? Also, what would become of the current site if another one is chosen?

[Ship called Dignity]

The four potential sites are the existing Grammar School and playing fields, Kinloch Park, The Meadows playing fields and the combined site of The Meadows playing fields and the ground adjacent to Campbeltown Hospital.

The original list of eleven sites was produced after pupils, staff, councillors, partner agencies like Argyll Community Housing Association (ACHA), Strathclyde Fire and Rescue, Argyll and the Isles enterprise, Argyll College and local businesses had their say. An appraisal process was followed which reduced the original eleven sites to the four that are being presented for public consultation.

What I can't get my head round is why the Meadows Playing Field is even one of the options. The playing field was awarded Millennium Playing Field status back in 2000 which ensured it remained as a playing field.

What is there to consult in fact? Kinloch Green will never be an option locally so looks like its back to the current site as can't see the lower school playing field being an option....

[Stebyr]

To me the only site that makes any sense would be the existing Grammar School site. It's already got half the infrastructure, ie the bus turning area and path. Kinloch green?! With the all weather pitch and Aqualibrium already there there would be no green left! Meadows would be a possibility, but surely the flooding there would be a potential problem? Field next to the hospital: Where would the helicopter land then? Also, what would become of the current site if another one is chosen?

Not to forget the annual bonfire & fireworks put on a a joint effort by Dalintober & Millknowe Tenants & Residents Association and Strathclyde Firefighters and Cadets on Kinloch Green

[WC1]

The Council has made it clear that the outcome of the public consultation will be A factor but not necessarily THE deciding factor in determining the site of the new school. Here's the relevant paragraph in the report approved at the September meeting:-

"The Council would require to ensure that the public are aware that the
outcome of the consultation would be a determining factor but not the
determining factor in its consideration of which site would be chosen. The
clear message would be a positive one that the Council is proposing to
provide a new Campbeltown Grammar. The choice of the site is one where
the Council wants to obtain the optimal site that will bring the most benefit to
Campbeltown, having regard to a range of determining factors. While the
Council requires to balance considerations such as cost and affordability it
wishes the public to contribute their view to help inform the Council’s thinking.
This would allow the public to form a reasoned opinion in relation to the
preference for any site."

Does this mean that the Council would impose its preferred site in the face of a clear public preference for another? The message for Campbeltown is clear: the biggest possible participation in this consultation is vital.

[gizmo]

Come on Willie, you have been there and seen that. You know fine well public consultation doesn't mean they are consulting the public. This is the traditional get out clause for afterwards if there are any complaints.
As I understand it, Meadows can't be used. The combined Meadows and lower playing field site would need to have been thought up by commitee. I cant see Kinloch as an option. Leaving?

[Ship called Dignity]

Perhaps WC1 is saying that even if the public say Kinloch Green isn't an option to them the Council could do otherwise and from what I've heard (and only the rumour mill) there is a strong preference for Kinloch Green from certain bodies within the Council.

The new school on Kinloch Green is a no-no as far as I'm concerned. Does anyone support Kinloch Green as an option? Would be interesting to know.

Kinloch Green could have been an option if they made better use of the Park Square site?

[MPR]

Im thinking the green, council wont care a whit what we think, They will look at the aqualibrium and the AWP as a bonus and eventually all the schools together on that spot.now as to the parking and bus issues, we always have that new bit of road to use at the top of the longrow.

[Mzz pasico]

I posted my views in a similar thread in September on the forum under "Site Selection Process". Bring the Grammar back home to it's original site of the Community Centre and Castlehill School.

[MPR]

I posted my views in a similar thread in September on the forum under "Site Selection Process". Bring the Grammar back home to it's original site of the Community Centre and Castlehill School.

AGREE!!!!!!

[gizmo]

Got to agree it would have been my favourite option.
Knock down the Community centre and the wee Grammar. Too many old and decrepit buildings in the town as it is.

[weetoonplodder]

Gizmo, MRP, Mzz

Sorry to say but I think your all either living on too much nostalgia or living in cuckoo land, there is only one site suitable for the new Grammar School and that is the current site.

1, The area of Castlehill, St Kierans and the Community centre combined even with the Nursery is nowhere near the area needed for a high school with playgrounds.

2, If you were considering another current school site you would be better knocking down Dalintober School and removing more of the bank at the back and side and puting it in there as its a bigger area than the Castlehill site, but even at that I think its far too small for this facility.

3, Would you be allowed to demolish St Kierans, the Community Centre or Dalintoner for architectural and listed building reasons?

4, There is also the issue of access for parking of buses etc at both of these sites, you cant have dozens of buses and cars stopping outside either of them, they are already potential death traps.

5, You can never consider puting it on Kinloch green, its bad enough having the Aqualibrium and the new all weather pitch there, its the only decent sized central public green/playing area in the town, put a new school there and it will destroy the whole look of the town, the Aqualibrium I personally think is a little on the large side as it is, but I understand why it needs to be so big (dont get me started on why the library needed to go there, it should never have been moved out of its existing building, a building that was gifted to and belongs to "Campbeltown (the peope of Campbeltown)" not Argyll and Bute bloody council for the purposes of their offices). The all weather pitch already resembles an exercise yard for a prison with its high wire fences and flood lights, stick the school next to it, and all the visitors coming to the town will think we really do have a prison complex in the centre of town. The other factor for not puting the school there is because its reclaimed ground, look at the trouble we had with the old pool, who's to say we aint gonna have similar trouble with the new pool, its only been up a few years, you would need to spend a fortune either piling the ground or building it on a raft system to prevent this from happening, money that could be well spent on other things in and around Campbeltown. You would also need to considerably beef up the existing sea wall to prevent movment there with the pressure that could be applied on it if such such a large complex was built so close to it, yes you would get sideways pressure as well as downwards pressure if building there, the last thing you want is the soil being washed away if the wall bursts, and its already in a poor state of repair. The existing school does not get flooded where it is, but put it on Kinloch green and its open to being flooded by high tides now and in the future, we already get flooding at the memorial/esplanade and on John St when there are high tides (look what is happening in the USA right now, we could easily have that happening with us). What would you do with the War Memorial if you put it there, its already falling down and needs work done on it, It is a stricking monument as it is, far more stricking than that silly little Cenotaph in London, that looks so big on the tv, but is only about 1/3 the size of our Memorial. What the hell is it gonna look like if there is a bloody great big school parked beside it? what you gonna do, relocate it too, I know we could stick it up where the existing school is after its demolished and the rememberance sunday parade can get blown away even more than they currently do!

I fail to understand why somone has not considered the Campbeltown Creamery site for the school, its a vast site, and is close to the centre of town, it has good access for buses off of witchburn road, a road which could be enhanced/made wider from the top of the Big Kiln (via compulsory purchase) to the cottage hospital turning if necessary, and a site that could also be accessed from the Meadow road at the back where the industrial units are, it could have large playgrounds, its a flat site and has the Meadows playing fields at the rear, it is also about 2-3m above the flood plain of the Meadows at the rear so no chance of flooding. If it was good enough for Tesco, then it should be good enough for Argyll and Bute Council, the Creamery could easily be relocated to the Snipefield site as was originally proposed in the Tesco deal and im sure its something that would be welcomed by all if that was the case..

The only other site I would consider is apart from the current site and the Creamery site is actually at Snipefield where the Creamery was supposed to go, yes its a little out of town but its no further than the current site and just means that the kids from Ralston side of town would need to walk the further distance for a change, access is good and the main road has just been upgraded, its already got services installed, its a clean site to work on meaning that it could be built without any or very little demolition work needing to be done.

Ultimately it takes us back to the current site, a site that if you take in all the fields with in the grounds if far greater than any of the alternative sites considered, a site which i think is far greater in size than any other property/site in the town area outwith the BASE, yes its on a hill and yes it catches the wind, but thats only because its 4 and 4.5 Storey's high, flatten the site at the back of the technical block or at least cut away some of the bank and make it a more spread out building over 2 storeys only (not much higher inside than the current assembly hall ceiling then the sloped roof on top). Re-align the building so it goes back towards the technical block and garage/Brinton room area, and if necessary, do a compulsory purchase on the fields at the back to enlarge the site by another 10-20m if really required. Build a covered walk way up the path from the bus turning area so that "the poor we souls dont get wet and blown away", it does not need to be fancy, just a good strong roof on it and open sides to allow the wind to blow through, make it a few feet wide on either side of the path, put a railing up either side, of the path and they will be as safe as houses and as dryzabone. If you do that then you also eliminate the trouble of parents driving into the school to drop their kids off, you issue the teachers and other staff with tags that operates a barrier at the Hutcheon Road enterance with an intercom and camera system linked to the Janitors office for all other necessary users, therefore the parents who drop their kids off will have no choice but to drop them off at the bottom of the path because they will not be able to gain access to school by car without a valid reason, you further enhance it by installing a similar system for the residents along the road where Alastair McPhee lives, that way you eliminate all possible stopping and turning areas for persistant and stupid parents and give these private residents a better quality of life rather than having idiots parking their cars along that road.

No matter where it goes and what you build just make sure it aint built with aluminium panels like the current one, concrete lintels aint held together with fencing wire like the current one, make sure the roof aint a flat one like the current one, and finally, make sure the windows aint too big and dont fall out like the current one, get all those factors right and you just might get a half decent building that will last longer than the current one

Please, please, please make sure that the eejit's that designed the current Grammar School and all the rest of the similarly designed ones in Argyll are no where near the design of the new one, because as much as its still barely standing they clearly didnt have a scoobly about what they were building for the enviroment that it was placed in. I would love to know what kinda money has been spent on that place on unnecessary maintenance over the years because of their stupidity

Happily open to constructive critisism on this

weetoonplodder

From Hot And Sticky Lagos

[A15 NMA]

Thats a real handful - I bet your happy to get that of your chest

Just one question, you make reference to the size of the alternative sites being unsuitable therefore I assume you must be informed regarding the size of the proposed "New school" which will be built. What size/area will it be/cover?

[WC1]

Excellent point. Until we have a rough idea of the total amount of land actually needed for the school, the playgrounds, sports fields, car parking, etc., we can't know whether one site could accommodate it while another couldn't.

Regarding the old Grammar School/Castlehill site, the problem there - if my memory serves me correctly and nothing has changed in the meantime - is that while the Council owns the buildings it doesn't actually own the land on which they sit. All the other sites, both those discarded from the long leet of 11 and those retained in the short leet of four, are owned by the Council. Any others would involve some of the money for the school going on land acquisition, which obviously should be avoided.

[weetoonplodder]

Thanks for your contructive comments A15 and WC1

I agree with both of you that until we know the actual size of the new establishment, then one site cannot be given priority over another, but if you look at it logically and from a common sense, good planning and good design point of view, that would suggest that

1. As much as the School Roll size might be less that it once was with base now defunct and the town and area population
not as large as it maybe once was (i dont know the exact figue). Its fair to say that It cant be that much smaller, even
if it is 25% less than it once was, the actual foot print area of the school is still not going to change much, why you might
ask!

Good planning and design would suggest that any reduction in size due to reduced pupil numbers would mean less
less classrooms which would mean that the building could be reduced in height by at least one storey making it
less susceptible to wind damage, but still the footprint would remain similar.

2. Further foresight in planning and design would suggest as id said in my previous posting that you reduce the height of the
building by another storey making it only 2 storeys + slopped roof high (effectively 2.75 storeys high) to even
further reduce the effects of wind on the building. The only issue with doing this is that the foot print will become larger
than the current one meaning that a large site is required.

Even with my extremely limited knowledge of the Campbeltown area and the proposed sites, I think its fair to say that if you were to take the existing school (buildings only in its current footprint) and drop it on top of any of the proposed site the only one that could accomodate and still leave a reasonable amount of room for play grounds and playing fields would be the Meadows playing fields and possibly Kinloch Green.

Only a clown would consider puting it on the Meadows playing fields, over and above what Ship Called Dignity says about it being a designated playing fields site (and i totally agree with him on that), we all know that the dam place floods and is sodding wet most of the time. To build the school there would require it to be built on a raft system to stop it sinking (similar to the sheltered housing at the Meadows if my memory serves me right, but then again I might be talking waffle). The same would apply to puting it on the existing school playing fields on the meadows next to the hospital as its always sodding wet there too, and again the same scenario of raft foundatios or major piling if you put it on Kinloch Green (but I still think that site is too small and would ruin the whole look of the town).

There is no way that we can allow architects and designers to build something that has the same issues as the current school, we have to use common sense and build something that is Iconic, practicable and maintainable, something for the future, something thats sustainable, something that is green. Design a 2 storey building with sloped roof, re-aligned on the existing site so it sits further back on towards Bengullion, install solar panels on the roof to provide hot water for the toilets, showers and dining room kitchen, Install a wind turbine/turbines to provide power for lighting and some electrical supply and install a rainwater harvesting system to reduce water consumption.

Build it of a size that would allow for greater numbers in the future if required, build it so that its a multi purpose building which can be used for the community, build it in a way that it can also be used as a technical teaching school/college to provide the pupils with technical/trade career skills, not just academic skills. We dont have the shipyard to teach welding and engineering, we dont have may building firms taking on apprentices, we dont have Jaegar teaching tailoring skills, we dont have many opportunities for the young within the town area after school, most opportunities like that only exist outwith the town meaning that they have to go to Clydebank College meaning increased costs for all concerned. If we can manage to end up with a dentistry training college in Campbeltown we can surely have a school for the future.

So thats my opinion, existing site it has to be, either that or bite the bullet, splash the cash and build it on the Creamery site and relocate it to snipeield, but then we could always go crazy and relocate it out at the base and bus them all out and in every day, there's plenty of room there and "We The Community" own the land so no purchase costs, only building costs!!!!!

weetoonplodder

From Hot And Sticky Lagos