Your views wanted on the site for the new Campbeltown Gramma

[tarmmaker]

Nearly everyone in this thread seems concerned by the present building having storm damage problems. Modern buildings don't leak/have windows fall out/wobble/blow away. Just use professionals who know what they are doing and use the present site.

[gizmo]

Modern buildings back in the day were not supposed to leak,have windows blow out,wobble or blow away. But that one did.
I believe it was designed and built by professionals as well. Cant really use the present site, there is a school on it.

[weetoonplodder]

Gizmo

You beat me to it, I was gonna say the same thing, then again maybe professionals are better nowadays than they were then!!!

You could use the present site though, just decant the pupils, St Kierans is empty and could be used along with portacabins in the playground, the School could be demolished and re built in sections, and the playground and top football pitch is well big enough to accomodate portacabins for temporary classrooms, and if im not mistaken, is the call centre still not lying empty? All you would do is work out a rota, and bus the pupils to these locations if required, no dif than busing them up and down to the pool for swimming in P E. All you gotta do is think outside the box a little

weetoonplodder

From Hot And Sticky Lagos

[Kintyre Forum News]

What happened in other areas is they built the school next to the current school (on their playing fields for example). Once ready they move the pupils, demolish the old school and build the playing fields etc which can be completed over a shorter period of time.

Then again, no different to building it somewhere else and once finished moving the kids in.

One thing for sure it isn't before time and whatever they do lets make sure it is what suits the community best and not accept some fancy design which is not fit to meet the educational and community needs. Great opportunity to get it right, we have waited long enough!

Either way, we hope to get more information on the proposals up on here following next week's consultation.

KFN

[gizmo]

If that is the site chosen, logically build the new school on the playing fields, using the old one in the mean time, move the kids then knock the old school down and make the sports field there. It was said earlier the council don't own the site of the Castehill, Community centre and wee Grammar, I suppose I am missing something obvious but if we don't own it, who does?

[WC1]

When the existing site was first being discussed (as the only option I might add) that's precisely what was intended: the school would continue to operate in the present buildings while the new school was built on the playing field, then the school would decant into the new building, the old one would be demolished, and the new all-weather playing fields etc. (as at every other new school in Argyll and Bute - watch this one) would go on to the site of the old building. That's exactly what happened at Dunoon Grammar.

The playing field provision is an important consideration. They will argue that because there's already an all-weather pitch at Kinloch Green the school should go down there so that they don't have to make this provision separately for the new CGS. But compare the all-weather pitch with the vast area of all-weather surface at Lochgilphead Joint Campus. Giving the new CGS just that alone would be to sell it short compared with the other new schools Argyll and Bute Council has built.

[Ship called Dignity]

The playing field provision is an important consideration. They will argue that because there's already an all-weather pitch at Kinloch Green the school should go down there so that they don't have to make this provision separately for the new CGS.

WC1, all good points and you will probably know more about the proposals but given the previous comments we probably should wait and see what the proposals are first.

The overall provision of a new secondary school is arguably one of the most important building developments there has been in Campbeltown for decades. The importance of ensuring what we get (in this modern day) now and the foundations we lay for years to come is hugely critical to future of the town's children.

As you point out the playing field provision is one factor that is hugely important and something that the Council should get correct. If not they are failing the education system, the community and most importantly the children. If there is no all weather pitch provision for the new secondary school site (I'm thinking of the current site as I can't see it going anywhere else) then the Council etc have failed.

In the Council's own Playing Field Strategy published this year it states;

'Ensure that the Business Case for Campbeltown Grammar develops the full design specification as per sportscotland Guidance for Community Use of Schools and an additional entrance and office space is provided to enable full Leisure Services Management of the new facilities. The school development in its design proposal should also adhere to sportscotland guidance ‘School Playing Fields Planning and Design Guidance’.

The Playing Fields Planning and Design Guidance has been followed in ALL of the secondary schools in mainland Argyll (and probably the islands too). The fact that Campbeltown has a new 3G All Weather Pitch elsewhere should NOT be a factor in what is provided at the new school (unless the chosen site is Kinloch Green of course). There was All Weather Pitch provision in Dunoon when they built the new secondary school there and this did not stop the school being built with the required playing fields and two All Weather Pitches - one 2G and one 3G so why would they treat Campbeltown differently? Will the Council argue that they will not provide the correct indoor halls because we have the Victoria Hall for example? I hope not.

If the new school was built where the existing school playing fields are then the site occupied by the current grammar school is huge and gives scope to a far bigger area than in Lochgilphead for example. The Council should remember that the AWP at Kinloch Green is a Community Pitch.

The Leisure Consultants who carried out a review of sports provision in Argyll & Bute were horrified at the facilities in Campbeltown and more so at the grammar. They pointed out that the number one priority, in terms of sport, for ABC was an All Weather Pitch in Campbeltown. A 3g pitch. They highlighted that to wait another 5 or 6 years (this was back in 2009/10) to get an AWP as part of the secondary school was a lifetime in a child's sports development and it was important to address the situation now. They also highlighted that the secondary school will have to come with some sort of AWP surface and if we have a 3G pitch already then a 2G pitch WILL be provided with a new secondary school.

All of the above may be immaterial, the real talking point will come when we know what the proposals are. That's why it is hugely important that as many people as possible take part in the consultation and ensure we get the correct facilities. If the new site is the existing site and there is no AWP provision then we should ensure that argument is made. This is a huge opportunity for the town so lets grasp is and not give in. My passion is sport and although a couple of people laughed at a previous suggestion of mine I'll be going along and arguing that the playing field provision should contain a running track. We have wonderfully talented young athletes in Kintyre and largest running community in Argyll in Campbeltown so why not?

We'll see what the proposals are this week and take it from there. Its good to see it happening at last.

[Stebyr]

As there are plenty of usable buildings at the base these could be utilised as temporary classrooms while the existing school is demolished and the new one built on the same site.

[Kintyre Forum News]

Just a wee reminder to go along and attend the consultation tonight or over the next three days and ensure Campbeltown gets the best.

Launch night is on Wednesday 7 November and you are invited to Campbeltown Grammar School between 7pm and 9pm to find out more. Council staff will be on hand to explain the site, design and layout options.

Alternatively there are three open days where the same information will be available. These will be held at Aqualibrium in Campbeltown on Thursday 8 November between 10 am and 8pm, Friday 9 November between 10 am and 4pm and on Saturday 10 November between 10 am and 12pm.

[S6MMF]

I went along today and found it really interesting to talk to the council architect lady and head teacher who were there. I hadn't thought about the fact that the old school was built for 800 odd pupils and the new grammer will be for half that amount of pupils so therefore much smaller. I really didn't like the Kinloch green idea, but they were talking about it being positioned over by Tesco (where the play park is), which I hadn't invisaged, and although I'm still not sure about Kinloch green site for traffic reasons, it does sound good that the school would be closer to amenities like the swimming, library and AWP, not only for during school hours but for after school. decisions, decisions, I wouldn't like to be the deciding body as there will be moans and groans whatever is chosen!

[Ship called Dignity]

I went along yesterday and like you S6MMF I found it interesting in terms of options on Kinloch Park. The bit of land between Tescos (the playpark area) and the AWP is larger than you realise and again as you say when you take into consideration the size needed for the new school it is only going to house half the pupils it was originall built for it does make you think differently about it.

Unfortunately, there was no architect there when I visited to didn't get the input from them. Looking at it from a map perspective the Meadows is a cracking area in terms of size but there is little hope of it being built there given the very poor ground conditions. It was interesting to find out the Meadows is not in fact a Millennium Playing Field - the final stage was not completed. I find this hard to imagine given the formal ceremony the Council conducted back in 2000 to say it was a Millennuium Park so one for the sports people to follow up on.

Having now thought about the comments on the day I still don't see Kinloch Park as an option. The only acceptable option to me would be between Tescos and the AWP as pointed out but there is no guarantee it will be built there. If the Kinloch Green site is chosen it can then be anywhere on the Green which is a huge risk it itself. Its only when the site is chosen will they decide where it will go so no gaurantee of where it is. Whilst the vision of what is needed was given the school would be half the size and looking at it from the front, then that takes away one half of the school, it still needs indoor halls, canteen, changing rooms, toilets (I would imagine in this day and age there will be a minimum of 4 changing rooms and 4 toilets), music, technical etc so it is still going to be a considerable size. There is a need for parking, play ground facilities and playing field facilities. To be there is a real danger of losing out on what could be delivered at the existing site (the only viable other option).

To put a three floor secondary school on Kinloch Green would totally change the centre of our town and our main recreational space (which has changed enough by the AWP). Yes, it would be nice to be next to the new AWP but that isn't a benefit as a new AWP (2G) would be delivered with the new school which would be of better benefit to the town plus it would mean the 3G community pitch would have a longer lifespan. Being next to the Aqualibrium might be nice too for swimming classes but I'm not sure that is a positive in the grand scheme of things.

Whilst the existing Grammar School site has its issues - mainly round access and conditions when the weather is foul the actual location isn't that far removed from the town centre when you think of it. Building it on the playing fields would mean it is lower, probably more sheltered and easier to get to. (less walking!) In many ways when I was growing up I liked the isolation of the grammar school. Out of traffic etc but 10 minutes walk from the town centre.

It really should be the main discussion of the town and like yesterday, I enjoyed hearing why there were other options - it all adds to the debate!

[odds]

As an outsider who used to attend the grammar in the early/mid 70's and now a frequent visitor, I have been reading this and can see both pros/and cons for the sites near the AWP and the existing site. Yes it would be nice to have it right next to other leisure facilities that could be utilised by the school but as Ship has pointed out you would be losing the main recreational area for the residents of the town, but you have a perfectly good existing site, and with the right planning should be the perfect place for it to remain, but hey, I don't live there so my opinions don't really matter but just thought I would give my opinion anyway
Oh yes, and THAT walk up THAT hill in the cold rain swept mornings is something that the next generation should endure, so if they do resite it on the fields I would fence any entrance off till you got to the top of the hill
I couldn't believe that they only require a school to accommodate 50% less pupils than it was first intended for, where has everyone gone ?
One question though, if the existing site is not used, what will it actually be used for after the school has gone ?

Pete.

[S6MMF]

Overall my opinion remains the same about Kinloch Green; it doesn't work for me, I think that there would be too much traffic congestion. The old site would be built far closer to the bottom of the path, thus eliminating the terrible trudge up the hill, I especially remember getting soaked and spending first lessons drying out, or sitting in a coach to Glenbarr freezing and soaked through, so I did mention this and was assured that the new school entrance would be better positioned and the whole bus turning area and junction would be re jigged too. It is only a hop, skip and a jump to the main street from the old site, and after school activities at the swimming, AWP etc are only a 10 min walk away. The area of ground at the the existing grammer is much bigger than I thought too. I also mentioned the drainage costs of Meadows and it seems that all the sites have similar problems and that it wasn't a big concern as this cost is factored in to all the builds....
Its defo worth going along to have a chat.

[Stebyr]

The Council has made it clear that the outcome of the public consultation will be A factor but not necessarily THE deciding factor in determining the site of the new school. Here's the relevant paragraph in the report approved at the September meeting:-

"The Council would require to ensure that the public are aware that the
outcome of the consultation would be a determining factor but not the
determining factor in its consideration of which site would be chosen. The
clear message would be a positive one that the Council is proposing to
provide a new Campbeltown Grammar. The choice of the site is one where
the Council wants to obtain the optimal site that will bring the most benefit to
Campbeltown, having regard to a range of determining factors. While the
Council requires to balance considerations such as cost and affordability it
wishes the public to contribute their view to help inform the Council’s thinking.
This would allow the public to form a reasoned opinion in relation to the
preference for any site."

Does this mean that the Council would impose its preferred site in the face of a clear public preference for another? The message for Campbeltown is clear: the biggest possible participation in this consultation is vital.

[b]Or to put it another way, we have made up our mind and are just going through a sham of a consultation to pretend that public opinion is important[ /b]

[mrn]

I went along on Wednesday night and I was surprised at the low attendance. I too can't see any other option but the existing site. Did anyone else get the feeling the head teacher favours Kinloch Green? I certainly left with that opinion.....