Recent events - lessons to learn, points to raise etc

[Bonnie Lass]

Perhaps we should look out for these in antique shops or car boot sales

[numberplease]

Got one! It`s been on our bedroom window ledge for years, but it takes paraffin and seems to be in good working order.

[EMDEE]

No wonder Tigger has said that he/she is finished with this forum.

There is no need for ridicule and humiliation when someone posts their opinions on a discussion forum. Everyone is entitled to their opinions. That is democracy and free speech.

Just because someone lives in a rural area does not mean that their expectations of a normal life should be any less than someone who lives in a town.

Ridicule of someone's opinions is not discussion, it it unadulterated humiliation.

Just remember that we all see things from our own perspective.

[Galaxychoc]

Looking back we could all encourage our elderly relations, friends and neighbours to have a small emergency pack with torches, hot water bottles etc. as we found a lot of elderly dont have even these basic items....a wee hot water bottle makes a big difference when you are cold and sitting in the dark. Maybe local sw could have a box of hot water bottles and torches ready for the next time....

[numberplease]

Preferably wind up torches, wind up radios as well.

[DJD]

So come on Animalmuppet 2 what claim to fame, can you recall on in experience in life, to make such a bold judgement as you have on others, or is it is because you have just encounter it recently.

We can all work out your words of recall to another poster, but alas its with really no substance but actual words and like every person that has read your comments will not agree.

So come on tell us, Im interested even though some won't be.

[gizmo]

[.

Best idea yet, stock up now on all of the essential items that you might need next time the lights go out. Lots of petrol and diesel generators for sale on Ebay, hot water bottles too, and old style plug-in and talk phones Better still venture into Campbeltown and see what the local retailers have to offer such as candles (plain or scented), batteries, wind-up torches, wind-up radios, and if small electrical generators are not in stock I am sure that traders like Jim Martin or Jewsons could probably source one for you. Newgrove are selling calor gas heaters at a reasonable price too.

So next time that things go wrong remember the golden rule : DON'T PANIC.

Again, fairs fair. Other than the bit about buying generators what is wrong with what he stated?
Candles, wind up torches, batteries and hot waterbottles. Common sense.
Calor gas heater if you have the room and a camping stove just in case. Why not?
Doesn't hurt to be prepared. Admittedly it could have been put a bit better but I don't think another witch-hunt is needed.
Tigger seems to be very thin skinned.

[muppetanimal]

Don't you just love it when you feel like bursting into song ...

"Oh Happy Day ..."

.... especially when you are at a turkey shoot and the big ones keep on popping their heads through the fence ....

"...oh Happy Day..."

... now when you have been at sea, and even the humble local fishermen will tell you this, you have to BE PREPARED for any eventuality, and that is why even local inshore fishermen have to do courses in safety awareness, fire fighting, and first aid. It's not that you want to be showing off your skills, it's knowing what to do if the circumstances present themselves....

" ... when Jesus washed ......"

..... If you are operating a business from premises then you are supposed to have done a risk assessment, so that you know what the dangers might be in your workplace, where the staff are to muster in the event of the building being evacuated, or in other words that you are conscientious enough to BE PREPARED in the event that something goes wrong....

" ... when Jesus washed ....."

... Of course there are some folk who believe that to BE PREPARED is a waste of time and effort, I mean why be organised enough to help oneself when there are loads of others out there just "champing at the bit" to come to every Tom, Dick and Harrys rescue (sorry ladies not being sexist it's just the reference to males in the phrase ) ...

" ... Jesus washed ......"

... but obviously some posters are of the opinion that every suggestion made to them is plausible
and that there are no such things as bad ideas. Myself and others with workplace experience in managing a crisis just need to hope that Disaster Management in this country is not left in the hands of people unable to separate the "wheat from the chaff" when sensible and non-sensible ideas are presented to them....

"... Washed my sins away ....."

.... so back at the turkey shoot I'm doing fine. I seek not praise because common sense and BEING PREPARED will win most arguments from those with an open mind and willing to listen. That you can please some of the people some of the time is obvious, but there will always be some who will refuse to see the daylight when you have opened the curtains for them.

In the words of Jonathan Swift (from 1738)
‘There are none so blind as those who will not see. The most deluded people are those who choose to ignore what they already know’.

"...Oh Happy Day ..."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SLY7yI1xV-M

[DJD]

Lol, happy hunting, watch you don't shoot yourself in the foot.

[muppetanimal]

Points to note :

Wind-up radios -- buy one that is FM & AM, as the FM signals largely failed when the power was out but AM signals were still available.

Generators -- 240 volt, 1000 watt (petrol engined) weighing 25kgs (56 lbs) for less that £150 delivered (mainland) on Ebay website. May be a big investment for most of us, but something to consider if you are in a remote location.

[MurkyLitFelon]

1000 "eBay watts" means 600 watts in reality - might power a fridge or two, but it won't heat your house or give you a hot bath, allow you to cook or do the washing.

Be prepared.

That means a bigger generator. And fuel - a couple of hundred litres of fuel if you want to last the six days most were off and keep your freezer food safe. That'll need a bunded tank and will go stale in less than a year if not used.

Be prepared.

You will need to wire fixed equipment like an electric oven up to the generator safely. That means rewiring - to just back feed the house through existing wiring - perhaps a "widowmaker", will endanger your family's life and that of SSE workers.

Be prepared.

The alternative is to not spend thousands trying to generate your own electricity but become less dependent on it. That's preparation.

[muppetanimal]

1000 "eBay watts" means 600 watts in reality

Hmmm ... one for Ebay's lawyers to sort out now that a failed attempt has been made to besmirch their good name and reputation, obviously MurkyLitFelon doesn't believe that the Trade Descriptions Act applies to goods sold on Ebay, but I can assure him/her that it certainly does. So if a machine is advertised as having 1000 watts of continuous output at 240V then that is what it is required legally to do.

The idea was not to replace a mains electricity supply, the idea was to supplement other facilities that someone may have available to them.

So if MurkyLitFelon (and others) wish to continue nitpicking on the subject they are perfectly at liberty to do so. In case it was missed the first time, in the words of Jonathan Swift (from 1738)
‘There are none so blind as those who will not see. The most deluded people are those who choose to ignore what they already know’.

[MurkyLitFelon]

So if a machine is advertised as having 1000 watts of continuous output at 240V then that is what it is required legally to do.

240 volts hasn't been the standard voltage in the UK or Europe for twenty years thanks to harmonisation. So that's already a trading standards infraction.

Like the power output on a car, these are all just numbers on a box. At best 'watts' (which is a fictional number) will have been measured with a random engine from a production line (+/- 10%) using fresh fuel (+/-10%) into a purely resistive load (+/-50%) at an average frequency (+/- 15%) and voltage (+/- 20%). '1000 watts' of continuous output might run a 1kW convector heater, but might not run a 500W motor - it depends on the load, and my 83 year old mother doesn't have a cosine table to hand to calculate apparent power or the necessary point-on-wave equipment to limit the inrush current.

'Continuous' is also a myth - a 3,000 rpm generator isn't designed to run continuously, which is why most fuel tanks are so small. Running a generator for 18 hours a day to keep a freezer cool would require 3-4 refills of fuel and an oil change every other day. And an maximum life-span of possibly 10-15 days for a cheap Chinese import. '1000 watts' won't run an immersion heater, cook your dinner or wash your clothes. A £150 generator will damage sensitive equipment like a computer and/or mobile phone due to frequency and voltage both being unregulated.

Encouraging people to go out and buy something they cannot use or cannot use safely or reliably isn't the answer.

Better communication - a mobile network that can stay up for more than five minutes when the lights go out.

Having someone in charge to make sensible decisions - where the buck must stop. Did you know who was in charge?

Drop the multi-agency PR and singing everyone's praises when the job isn't done.

Stop telling people to come to the toon on Facebook - get the word out, get the support out.

More help for the rural communities - rather than providing food and warmth fer the toon when they already had food and warmth.

Use existing services. The idea of a mobile van isn't a stupid one - just use what's already there. Get someone with a van who knows every door in the area - a postman - to knock on every door. Check for wellbeing, issues, and organise/request and deliver supplies. Cross-reference the elderly or infirm. Enlist volunteers.

Shipping some of those smaller generators that had been piled up at the creamery to community projects or rural hotels/shops 3-4 days earlier.

Set priorities based upon actual priority, not upon the size of the compensation bill. Basic triage.

[sugarandspice]

The recent adverse weather and power failure brought home to me just how vulnerable Kintyre is. We coped surprisingly well for the few days but how would we have managed if it had gone on for much longer? It highlighted our dependency on food and other goods being brought in by road, in particular milk and fresh produce, our dependency on electricity, and our lack of a community information, meeting and networking venue.

Many far less isolated communities in the country already have in place the mechanism for maximising the availability of locally produced food and becoming less reliant on grid connections- many aiming to be 80% self-sufficient in food within a few years. The Transition Network exists to help communities become more sustainable. It is worth having a look at this website, if you are not already familiar with it, to see what other communities are doing and what help is available to get started.

Kintyre could be in a very strong position as we are already a major food producing area, and there is great scope for energy production through wood burning, wind and hydro schemes, with particular scope through Machrihanish Airbase Community Company. Could we also be importing goods by sea rather than road? The Town Hall is also looking for a new use and would make an excellent community information and co-ordinating focal point.

I wonder if we could start a Kintyre Transition Group to help us cope with future emergencies and help us reduce our dependency on fossil fuels as these become scarce and increasingly more expensive.

[the phone girl]

the radio station could work on a generator but the masts need powered to broadcast to those of us with battery radios - it should be built into the emergency plan as communication, we now realise, is vital.(I imagine most of us now own a corded phone and a batter radio). Not sure if it was a coincidence - i think not though - that when the SSE powered the 2 mast sites ... the mobile phone networks all came back on at the same time as the FM signal. I mentioned this in a call to the SSE helpline and the woman on the phone told me that I should take this up with the network provider if my service had been off - i told her that i didnt believe that it was a network issue, that the mobile networks weren't actually down - indeed if you went to Kilkenzie you had full signal - 4 miles away - and that the networks came on when masts powered .. I think she though i was a mad woman .. but it makes sense to me and no one I have asked has told me that this isnt what happened. There was too much mis-information .. you phoned the helpline they told you information - you phoned the police they told you the information you got off the helpline wasn't accurate it was so frustrating.. could they not have put information on sheets of paper and taped it to shop windows in Campbeltown and the rural villages - council office windows anywhere really ..but ultimately there needs to be a properly tested continuity plan and while you cant plan for the exact circumstances we had.. our area has power cuts and our roads are sometimes closed cutting us off .. so a plan to cope with both of these happening separately or at once - with or without snow - would be helpful. Lists of volunteers and their addresses. We all have our ideas now of what we personally need to do. It was a very interesting learning experience - i kept thinking about growing up in the early/mid 60's with no central heating - no double glazing and a coal fire in the livingroom unless it was exceptionally cold when a fire in the bedroom MIGHT be lit or you might get an extra wool blanket.. we didnt have fitted carpets - we had a square in the middle with lino round the sides ... we must have become very soft over the years ... lets hope it doesnt happen again any time soon. x