The politics behind submarines and Trident

[ionnsaigh]

Oh aye the subs
So who's the enemy - who the foe
tell me please- i would love to know
whats the cost of war machine -flying the flag- god save the queen
Millions of pounds for a killing boat- little wonder i refuse the vote
decent houses a school or two- a general hospital now that would do

[jdcarra]

Oh aye the subs
So who's the enemy - who the foe
tell me please- i would love to know
whats the cost of war machine -flying the flag- god save the queen
Millions of pounds for a killing boat- little wonder i refuse the vote
decent houses a school or two- a general hospital now that would do

I ionnsaigh

I would agree with you, but the other side is, it is a deterent, if not we may not have any houses, schools or hospitals. The world we now live in i'm afraid.

Just my thoughts.

[Ross]

Well thought that id reply to this one as well

Oh aye the subs
So who's the enemy - who the foe

Cold war is over for now but what if the old hardliners came back to power?
North Korea and China have massive military programes with nuclear capabilities
Many of the Middle East states are activly pursueing nuclear technology
Terrorists and rogue states who get their hands on a nuke on the black market

whats the cost of war machine -flying the flag- god save the queen

Yes they are expensive but without them I doubt this country would still retain a seat on the UN security council thus giving the UK and gov a say in what happens around the world.
How many jobs are created around the west coast area through people either workin on the base or the thousands of companies that support it..shut Faslane and just see what happens to the unemployment figures in the area

Millions of pounds for a killing boat- little wonder i refuse the vote

Although they have the potential to do so if they are told to these boats do not go around killing people there job is to maintian peace through superior fire power
If you choose not to vote surely you have no right to then make political statements, if you want to make a change uses your democratic right and start voting

Aye that'll do me for now.

[ionnsaigh]

Ross
You have made some interesting points.
1. Aye the cold war is over- so why spend billions of tax payers money on such brutal machines- when the money could be spent on human needs.
What if the old hardliners come back- I suspect you see nuclear weapons, or weapons of mass destruction as a means of deterrent, can I ask where was the Russian Missiles pointed?. The threat of a nuclear strike has not deterred the IRA- the Taliban- Al-Qaeda- Hezbollah from going to war with this country ruled by an English parliament.
2. I was completely unaware that a country had to have a nuclear weapons arsenal to gain a seat at the United Nations
3. Shut Faslane and see what happens to unemployment in the area- If we where to redirect the vast sums of money wasted on these boys toys to help build a better society for all, there would be no unemployment in Scotland- it would be more than beneficial for Kintyre to have medical facilities that were equal, to say Communist Cuba.
3. We never had or enjoyed superior firepower to the might of the Communist Bloc -unless you count the USA or partners in crime- who after all are the only regime in the world who have actually killed Hundreds of Thousands of innocent civilians by dropping the bomb
4. Yes your right ,we do live in a Democracy- do you advocate compulsory voting? . Perhaps it is well worth pointing out to you lovers of Democracy that the kernel right of any Democracy is that the people can take up arms against the Government- or is that pivotal function to be negated for a vote?

Aye that will do me for now.

[general jack o'niell]

boys and their toys, only one sub sticks in my mind and it doesn't bring back happy memories

22nd november 1990

[Hoopoe]

Just a couple of points, Ionnsaigh:

1. They weren't Russian missiles, they were Soviet (USSR) missiles.

2. The UK holds a permanent seat on the UN Security Council because it is a nuclear power. Other member countries hold temporary seats.

3. Communist Cuba has excellent medical facilities. For years now they have had a vaccine for a strain of Meningitis that wasn't readily available elsewhere in the world, due to the illegal US blockade of the country.

4. Take up arms against the government? I think you've been reading the constitution of another country. I know of nothing in British Constitution that supports this theory.

We in the UK are not citizens, remember, but subjects. There is a significant difference between the two.

[jdcarra]

boys and their toys, only one sub sticks in my mind and it doesn't bring back happy memories

22nd november 1990

Ditto

Thr other side of this topic of what they can do.

[Ross]

You take one wee photo of a passing boat and post it for general interest and you see what happens, everone wants to jump on their soap box. I won't be partaking in any in depth political wrangling online as there are too many people who hide behind online names to stir it up.

[jdcarra]

You take one wee photo of a passing boat and post it for general interest and you see what happens, everone wants to jump on their soap box. I won't be partaking in any in depth political wrangling online as there are too many people who hide behind online names to stir it up.

Fully agree with you Ross.

A lot of topics recently have been going off thread (even possibly my last reply) which as you say was down to a picture, but never mind, tomorrow has still to come .

[Ross]

[John S]

Well Ross it is an emotive subject, the hardware is impressive, the potential for human suffering unimaginable, the justification for its retention weak. It is SNP Policy to remove trident from Scottish waters, next year people get the chance to make that choice.

Soap box dismounted

Yours

John Semple

[ionnsaigh]

Hoopoe

1. Aye yer right they were USSR Missiles aimed at Kintyre.
2. The Democratic rights of anyone regardless of the respective constitutions remains- be they Citizen or Subject.

[Bruce]

The Democratic rights of anyone regardless of the respective constitutions remains- be they Citizen or Subject.

Like Hoopoe, I somehow doubt you'll find anything that states the people in Britain can take up arms against the government - or against anyone else for that matter!

[Hoopoe]

1. Aye yer right they were USSR Missiles aimed at Kintyre.
2. The Democratic rights of anyone regardless of the respective constitutions remains- be they Citizen or Subject.

Ionnsaigh, we don't really live in a democracy in the sense that the US citizens do. Ours is a constitutional monarchy.

Subjects are chattels of Crown and Country, and subjugated accordingly.

[SmithD]

I must say Ross your pictures have opened a whole new can of worms now on this thread!