US policies - Guantanamo and the military

[Sweltered]

Did they know that Castro was going to execute 500 of his opponents, embrace communism and allow Russia to put missile sites on Cuba as a threat to the US?

The whole Cuban Missile Crisis was entirely predictable, and precipitated by the US deployment of Jupiter missiles to Turkey, putting them well within range of Soviet targets. Any fool could see that the Soviets would respond in similar fashion, deploying their own missiles to Cuba and within range of continental USA. It could almost be construed as a deliberate act of provocation by the Pentagon against the Soviets.

WHat exactly have you got against the US in particular? Why is your ire directed over here instead of your own doorstep? If you are going to hark back to the Cuban Missile crisis, why not go a little bit further back and deal with the British Empire and the attrocities committed by the British? Do you think the people of Florida CARED that there were missiles in Turkey? all they cared about was that there were nuclear weapons headed for Cuba, to be pointed at them and they expected their President to sort it out. You say the missiles in Turkey was a provocation, they would have seen it as an insurance policy.

There is a very important piece of information that doesn't get reported in the press or TV or internet, that you can't really grasp until you experience it. They think they won the cold war. The right wing christians in this country will tell you that at the end of the bible "we win". They KNOW they will defeat Islam, because at the end of the bible "we win". These are not religious fanatics, these are regular people who think Europe is rejecting the christian church, making way for the influx of Islam. That's why they accept whatever the government does in the name of national security. At the end of the bible "we win". The church is a huge thing especially in the South, and this is what is being preached. "At the end of the bible ,we win" not Christianity wins, the United States of America wins.

THAT is scarier than anything that has been done in Iraq.

[Bobbie En Tejas]

Did they know that Castro was going to execute 500 of his opponents, embrace communism and allow Russia to put missile sites on Cuba as a threat to the US?

The whole Cuban Missile Crisis was entirely predictable, and precipitated by the US deployment of Jupiter missiles to Turkey, putting them well within range of Soviet targets. Any fool could see that the Soviets would respond in similar fashion, deploying their own missiles to Cuba and within range of continental USA. It could almost be construed as a deliberate act of provocation by the Pentagon against the Soviets.

You were talking about Fidel Castro, not Russia. Of course Russia and the US were trying to maneuver against each other, they were enemies. Your original statement was about the US backing these people and then turning against them. Russia was just being opportunistic. You didn't respond to Fidel Castro being backed by the US, then executing 500 of his opponents and turning to our enemy. (btw, I have no opinion about castro in the years that followed.)

[dunoon]

Did they know that Castro was going to execute 500 of his opponents, embrace communism and allow Russia to put missile sites on Cuba as a threat to the US?

The whole Cuban Missile Crisis was entirely predictable, and precipitated by the US deployment of Jupiter missiles to Turkey, putting them well within range of Soviet targets. Any fool could see that the Soviets would respond in similar fashion, deploying their own missiles to Cuba and within range of continental USA. It could almost be construed as a deliberate act of provocation by the Pentagon against the Soviets.

WHat exactly have you got against the US in particular? Why is your ire directed over here instead of your own doorstep? If you are going to hark back to the Cuban Missile crisis, why not go a little bit further back and deal with the British Empire and the attrocities committed by the British? Do you think the people of Florida CARED that there were missiles in Turkey? all they cared about was that there were nuclear weapons headed for Cuba, to be pointed at them and they expected their President to sort it out. You say the missiles in Turkey was a provocation, they would have seen it as an insurance policy.

There is a very important piece of information that doesn't get reported in the press or TV or internet, that you can't really grasp until you experience it. They think they won the cold war. The right wing christians in this country will tell you that at the end of the bible "we win". They KNOW they will defeat Islam, because at the end of the bible "we win". These are not religious fanatics, these are regular people who think Europe is rejecting the christian church, making way for the influx of Islam. That's why they accept whatever the government does in the name of national security. At the end of the bible "we win". The church is a huge thing especially in the South, and this is what is being preached. "At the end of the bible ,we win" not Christianity wins, the United States of America wins.

THAT is scarier than anything that has been done in Iraq.

Boy I wish I'd loggd on earlier as you say THAT is scary.
But, sorry I am not supporting 'brave boys' anywhere. Will there be another total war? Probably. Will I still be alive then? I hope not. I could go into a long rant about how my History degree covers both world wars and American History up to 1970 but I won't
Save to say we never learn. Bush and Blair wont be the last people to make the same mistake - to quote Hot Chip ( that's a Uk pop ensemble) "over and over and over again, like a monkey with a minature drum"

[Bobbie En Tejas]

But, sorry I am not supporting 'brave boys' anywhere.

Its not the "brave boys" and women you should be down about, it is the leaders who get our brave sons and daughters into despicable wars.. The "brave boys" should have been in rwanda instead of Bosnia, and Darfur instead of Iraq. There is a time and a place for everything.. a time for war and a time for peace. The thing is, the US and the UK have shown how concerned about humanity they are when they speak of defending thousands while hundreds of thousands are getting brutally raped and murdered in active genocide.

Perhaps if there was oil to be had, our governments would be more enlightened about the moral issue of the atrocities.

[dunoon]

But, sorry I am not supporting 'brave boys' anywhere.

Its not the "brave boys" and women you should be down about, it is the leaders who get our brave sons and daughters into despicable wars.. The "brave boys" should have been in rwanda instead of Bosnia, and Darfur instead of Iraq. There is a time and a place for everything.. a time for war and a time for peace. The thing is, the US and the UK have shown how concerned about humanity they are when they speak of defending thousands while hundreds of thousands are getting brutally raped and murdered in active genocide.

Perhaps if there was oil to be had, our governments would be more enlightened about the moral issue of the atrocities.

Yep I agree

[general jack o'niell]

deleted due to apathy on my part

[Sweltered]

if you want to go back in time, the US supplied the soviets when it was convenient to beat hitler, once that was over they became the bad guys, round and round in circles, how long till Norway become the bad guys due to their oil reserves, after iran and venezuala are sorted out of course, but i think nigeria might just slip into 1st place in the bad guy stakes pretty soon, all supposing bush can find it on a map, we all know he can't find his own ar$e so there may be a delay in this!!!!

the drama on more4 the other night where bush got shot told a few truths that US weren't willing to hear, maybe thats what they objected to and not scenes of a real life president being assasinated?

i've decided to hate every nation, but treat individuals on a one to one basis, i might like you but i reserve the right to hate your country and what it stands for!!!

that way nobody should feel left out, i'm starting with France, oh thats been done at weekend, well Ukraine instead!!!!

I love the way you believe what you read and see LOL, it was fiction!

[Bobbie En Tejas]

I have been on this forum for a long time, and have never pointed my finger at anyone. I don't hate Iraqis. I don't hate North Koreans. I don't hate anyone. But I am hearing quite a lot that people hate america and americans. Funny how the ones who are most "antiwar" are the ones who become most hateful and aggressive against america. I guess its okay if you have the right enemy.

Which truths, gen, did you learn from a movie you saw last night that I didn't know months or years ago? What was the eye opening moment for you?

[John S]

I think I've said before on here that this is an easy medium for making sweeping generalisations, the intention of which can be easily misread. I doubt if there are many on here really hate Americans or America as a nation, more they dislike their perception of what America stands for, particularly in foreign policy and, the thought goes, if Americans are not up in arms against this then they must support it.

I know that the media in the states can be fairly unbalanced (as it can be here - BBC can seem very anti-Scottish) we see Fox News, and its not a pretty sight so perceptions can be skewed. I have family on the west Coast who have never voted in an American election because they believe the electoral system is totally corrupt, I know they abhor the war but, they don't see any body bags and don't get involved, not their problem.

I don't expect you to defend the States Bobby, but it might be enlightening to here a bit about how most Americans really feel. I notice that there is a wild lot of USA new members to this forum who never post - perhaps some of them would.

[Bobbie En Tejas]

I think I've said before on here that this is an easy medium for making sweeping generalisations, the intention of which can be easily misread. I doubt if there are many on here really hate Americans or America as a nation, more they dislike their perception of what America stands for, particularly in foreign policy and, the thought goes, if Americans are not up in arms against this then they must support it.

I know that the media in the states can be fairly unbalanced (as it can be here - BBC can seem very anti-Scottish) we see Fox News, and its not a pretty sight so perceptions can be skewed. I have family on the west Coast who have never voted in an American election because they believe the electoral system is totally corrupt, I know they abhor the war but, they don't see any body bags and don't get involved, not their problem.

I don't expect you to defend the States Bobby, but it might be enlightening to here a bit about how most Americans really feel. I notice that there is a wild lot of USA new members to this forum who never post - perhaps some of them would.

John S.. even after the best day ever in the stock market and the lowest gas prices in forever, Bush's acceptance rating is the lowest it has ever been at 33%. That must tell you something about what americans think. But you just might want to ask gen or ionns what americans think. I'm sure they will give you the real scoop on americans. The outburst wasn't just as a result of what was said in the forum, but also what was said in private. Unbelievable.

[dunoon]

I think I've said before on here that this is an easy medium for making sweeping generalisations, the intention of which can be easily misread. I doubt if there are many on here really hate Americans or America as a nation, more they dislike their perception of what America stands for, particularly in foreign policy and, the thought goes, if Americans are not up in arms against this then they must support it.

I know that the media in the states can be fairly unbalanced (as it can be here - BBC can seem very anti-Scottish) we see Fox News, and its not a pretty sight so perceptions can be skewed. I have family on the west Coast who have never voted in an American election because they believe the electoral system is totally corrupt, I know they abhor the war but, they don't see any body bags and don't get involved, not their problem.

I don't expect you to defend the States Bobby, but it might be enlightening to here a bit about how most Americans really feel. I notice that there is a wild lot of USA new members to this forum who never post - perhaps some of them would.

John S.. even after the best day ever in the stock market and the lowest gas prices in forever, Bush's acceptance rating is the lowest it has ever been at 33%. That must tell you something about what americans think. But you just might want to ask gen or ionns what americans think. I'm sure they will give you the real scoop on americans. The outburst wasn't just as a result of what was said in the forum, but also what was said in private. Unbelievable.

Good call, both of you, let's be reasonable . There is good and bad individuals in every country, I struggle to think on a good politcian. Nelson Mandela no he was a terrorist too. Bob Geldolf ...no he wrote some godawful songs
If we are really honest there are many people in our country ( even your own town) that we are less than endeared to. Never mind the nation thing for even one of us there is half a person that loves the whole war thing. Gives them someone to look down on.

[Sweltered]

I think I've said before on here that this is an easy medium for making sweeping generalisations, the intention of which can be easily misread. I doubt if there are many on here really hate Americans or America as a nation, more they dislike their perception of what America stands for, particularly in foreign policy and, the thought goes, if Americans are not up in arms against this then they must support it.

I know that the media in the states can be fairly unbalanced (as it can be here - BBC can seem very anti-Scottish) we see Fox News, and its not a pretty sight so perceptions can be skewed. I have family on the west Coast who have never voted in an American election because they believe the electoral system is totally corrupt, I know they abhor the war but, they don't see any body bags and don't get involved, not their problem.

I don't expect you to defend the States Bobby, but it might be enlightening to here a bit about how most Americans really feel. I notice that there is a wild lot of USA new members to this forum who never post - perhaps some of them would.

John

Believe me FOX news is very Skewed, remember Fox is owned by Rupert Murdoch. If you relly want to find out whats going on listen to Rush Limbaugh (thats a joke, he's worse than Fox)

[Bobbie En Tejas]

Fox is just more subtle than Limbaugh.

[Bobbie En Tejas]

I am such a b.. anyone who knows me knows I like a good, intelligent, rousing discussion, but I was a bit (or a lot) thin-skinned yesterday and I don't like the way I responded. If I offended, I'm really sorry.. if not,

round 2..

en garde!

[Sweltered]

I am such a b.. anyone who knows me knows I like a good, intelligent, rousing discussion, but I was a bit (or a lot) thin-skinned yesterday and I don't like the way I responded. If I offended, I'm really sorry.. if not,

round 2..

en garde!

It was justified I think