US policies - Guantanamo and the military

[general jack o'niell]

deleted due to apathy on my part

[dedalus]

Not sure how you can say you hate america unless you say you hate the U.K too. Yes they do have this lack of cynisism which we like to believe keeps us in check. And yes ive never felt more alien in america than when in sea-world at the shamu show they made all the servicemen stand up and made everyone clap - talk about a george orwell moment - you could see every brit in the arena shrink by 3" and go red with embarrassment. I guess its an over reaction to viet nam. But our behaviour is no better or worse. What is america? its people, its goverment, its business? - so they have an ar$e at the top - so do we.

[general jack o'niell]

deleted due to apathy on my part

[Bobbie En Tejas]

don't know which part was fiction? or which part i believed to be true? the drama was as the word drama suggests fiction, but what else?

if nothing we read, and nothing i see on news broadcasts from BBC, ITV, SKY, CNN, CNBC etc etc is true, then where do all you superior beings get your information from?

i must watch at least 4hrs of news in every 24, must be only person who watches holyrood live, but then i believe anything i'm told!!!

as for the hate americans thing, i don't hate americans, i hate america or to be exact what america stands for, flags on the lawn is every bit as unerving as the muslims beating their chests and burning effigies.

i love some americans, the marx brothers, joe gibbs head coach redskins) art monk, joe thiesmann, john riggens, walter payton, etc etc i never miss a televised NFL or baseball match, if i could watch college games i would, never miss letterman, gary shandling, william shatner (course i know he's canadian yeh!!!)

hell, i'm even related to ronald reagan!!!!!!!!

My news comes from the same sources. How come you understand it and americans don't? I can't remember the last time I saw a flag on a lawn, maybe 4th of July. But I did see a Youtube from Campbeltown last night, and it sure looked like a British flag on the antennae. The video was murky, so I could be wrong.

If you want to watch what a good portion of americans think and watch, watch Bill Maher of Politically Incorrect or the Daily Show with Jon Stewart instead of Letterman (pap, as Jock the Boat would say.) You can find them on YouTube. You might be surprised.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b2AWCdlY ... ed&search=

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3c4ZZwi7 ... ed&search=

[Sweltered]

Not sure how you can say you hate america unless you say you hate the U.K too. Yes they do have this lack of cynisism which we like to believe keeps us in check. And yes ive never felt more alien in america than when in sea-world at the shamu show they made all the servicemen stand up and made everyone clap - talk about a george orwell moment - you could see every brit in the arena shrink by 3" and go red with embarrassment. I guess its an over reaction to viet nam. But our behaviour is no better or worse. What is america? its people, its goverment, its business? - so they have an ar$e at the top - so do we.

Hate to contradict you, but I will anyway. Most of the parks have this salute to the services, of all nations. In my experience, the service personell from the UK stand without any sign of embarassment. The brits in the crowd applaud just as loudly as the yanks. I must admit it was surreal the first time I saw it, but having seen it several times now, and seen how brits react, they seem to appreciate it. I don't see the harm in it, as you say it could be an over-reaction to vietnam, but so what, they do it for the firefighters and police too.

[dunoon]

Not sure how you can say you hate america unless you say you hate the U.K too. Yes they do have this lack of cynisism which we like to believe keeps us in check. And yes ive never felt more alien in america than when in sea-world at the shamu show they made all the servicemen stand up and made everyone clap - talk about a george orwell moment - you could see every brit in the arena shrink by 3" and go red with embarrassment. I guess its an over reaction to viet nam. But our behaviour is no better or worse. What is america? its people, its goverment, its business? - so they have an ar$e at the top - so do we.

Hate to contradict you, but I will anyway. Most of the parks have this salute to the services, of all nations. In my experience, the service personell from the UK stand without any sign of embarassment. The brits in the crowd applaud just as loudly as the yanks. I must admit it was surreal the first time I saw it, but having seen it several times now, and seen how brits react, they seem to appreciate it. I don't see the harm in it, as you say it could be an over-reaction to vietnam, but so what, they do it for the firefighters and police too.

Absolutely right. In UK call centres staff applaud ever sale and shout "way to go" everyone, even the girls, are 'guys' and they all eat oreos. It's called joining in, being one of the gang. Can you say baaaaaaaaaaaaa. No different from the Scottish fans after the France game though. All swearing brotherly love and singing Flower of Scotland. Of course most of them chose not to wear their England or Ireland tops that day lest someone might think them patriotic. Sorry but I aint clapping no-one in a uniform. Spot the difference between that and how Mr Hilter weedled his way in. It's called fear. Fear to speak out, fear to say this is a bit over the top in case ( like the scene at the end of the body snatchers) someone turns around and screams 'unpatriotic' at you. Closest we got in the UK was the Death of Diana. Down in old London no-one felt they could crticise her in case the mob turned on them. They are not so quiet about her now! The whole uniform as emblem of the state thing will wax and wane. Me I'll never change - apart from ( so far) losing my Campbeltown accent, my name, my football team and my religion. What have the Romans ever done for us i hear you cry

[John S]

All that loss and nothing to show for it but a waist line

[Sweltered]

All that loss and nothing to show for it but a waist line

Plus he forgot to mention the hair.

[dunoon]

All that loss and nothing to show for it but a waist line

Oh that too! 1st stone lost so far and still winning

[dunoon]

All that loss and nothing to show for it but a waist line

Plus he forgot to mention the hair.

Unlike the rest of my male relatives I still have all my own hair- and teeth - view my blog and you will see

[Bobbie En Tejas]

And where do you keep those teeth? In your pocket, along with your own hair?

[Sweltered]

Absolutely right. In UK call centres staff applaud ever sale and shout "way to go" everyone, even the girls, are 'guys' and they all eat oreos. It's called joining in, being one of the gang. Can you say baaaaaaaaaaaaa. No different from the Scottish fans after the France game though. All swearing brotherly love and singing Flower of Scotland. Of course most of them chose not to wear their England or Ireland tops that day lest someone might think them patriotic. Sorry but I aint clapping no-one in a uniform. Spot the difference between that and how Mr Hilter weedled his way in. It's called fear. Fear to speak out, fear to say this is a bit over the top in case ( like the scene at the end of the body snatchers) someone turns around and screams 'unpatriotic' at you. Closest we got in the UK was the Death of Diana. Down in old London no-one felt they could crticise her in case the mob turned on them. They are not so quiet about her now! The whole uniform as emblem of the state thing will wax and wane. Me I'll never change - apart from ( so far) losing my Campbeltown accent, my name, my football team and my religion. What have the Romans ever done for us i hear you cry

The accusation is that people applaud out of fear, of courseyou know all about American culture, after all you've read lots about it and seen a movie or 2. May as well lecture us about how space creatures act, based on watching alien. It would never cross your mind that people applaud out of respect.

don't applaud for some Hitleresque fear driven fashion, they are applauding the uniform, it's their way of being patriotic, they applaud the service people for doing a job they wouldn't do, because here, the service people are seen to be the defenders of their freedom. They firmly believe that if it were not for the might of the US Armed forces, they would not have their freedoms, real or perceived (that's another arguement). What is so bad about being patriotic anyway?
So instead of accepting that people do things differently over here, they are condemned. I guess that makes the critics every bit as bad as those they criticise.

There seems to be the idea that I am assimilating into the culture, not true. I can see both sides of the coin as it were, and not relying on biased media reports. Your everyday American is not as portrayed on the news, and they are not characters from "Happy Days" either.

I take alot of what goes on here with a large pinch of salt, and I bet theres more hoopla in a British call center, thats another media myth.

So, don't applaud the service people,

[general jack o'niell]

deleted due to apathy on my part

[dunoon]

there goes all my theories about america, i thought happy days and grease were true life documentaries, and americans only came in two sizes, paris hilton and micheal moore.

what will i do now? try applauding a policeman in uk and you'll get your head kicked in, and never applaud a refereee(thats a uniform) ask wayne rooney
this goeas back to our brave boys thing, certainly the police and firemen who went into the twin towers were brave, and they died, the civilians who died did so mostly thru stupidity, i say mostly.
all firemen are brave i suppose but nobody applauds others who do equally dangerous jobs, maybe if the miners had worn uniforms back in the 80's they would have been applauded instead of getting their p45 handed to them?

me? i applaud the crab fisherman of dutch harbour everytime they come on the telly, now they are brave and a lot more interesting than traffic cops in manchester chasing boy racers. nobody applauds a pensioner who chases a bunch of neds and drops dead with a heart attack, they just peer out the curtains and turn the telly up.

i'd like to see what happens to a serviceman who after taking his ovation tries to catch a foul ball, probably get slashed, as opposed to some stadia in this country where he would get slashed on!!!!

as for the hair thing, "i got it, you want it?, your never gonna have it, i got it, you want it?, your never gonna have it!!!!

i'm not the general, i'm just a very naughty boy!!!!!

Sweltered really is turning into a yank! Of course I know nothing about America or Americans - did I mention my History Degree (Hons) was based on the two World Wars and American history to 1970. Anyone would think it was a waste of 10 years of study I have to go with the General on this one. Soldiers are told what to do -period! Until now that is - I see the British Army Chief now wants to pull out of Iraq and slamms the whole political nonsense of it all - about time too! I am applauding THIS brave boy in uniform.

Yes there are brave workers in all fields - and I'm with you on the miners example. And what about that George Cluny boy in Perfect Storm he was a brave boy.

Real Brave people; Rosa Parks, Martin Luther King, Emmaline Parkhurst, Desmond Tutu, Michael Collins ( sorry but he was!) Ho Chi Minh ( now that might annoy some people), Walter Sisulu, Lech Walesa, Nelson Mandela ( my favourite hero of all time), Muhammad Ali, the Kennedys, Ghandi - I'm sure that I've missed many many others.
For services people - anyone who won a victoria cross or any other medal for bravery - I applaud you too. Firemen who go into blazes yep I include you and any policeperson who has had to face an armed civilian or a mob and done their job. All have a go heroes - they are REAL heroes and deserve better.

For anyone who was brave just because you happened to be there but didn't really do anything - the press and the state has used you for PR.

OK rant over - have a nice weekend

[Wee Toon Ajax]

don't applaud for some Hitleresque fear driven fashion, they are applauding the uniform, it's their way of being patriotic, they applaud the service people for doing a job they wouldn't do, because here, the service people are seen to be the defenders of their freedom. They firmly believe that if it were not for the might of the US Armed forces, they would not have their freedoms, real or perceived (that's another arguement). What is so bad about being patriotic anyway?

Sweltered, have only been in the States once and that was during the Annual Memorial Day Holiday on the last Monday in May and have to say that I was actually shocked at the lack of respect on a day set aside for those who died in their nation's service.

I was staying in Hoboken, New Jersey at a girlfriend's house and we went out for a walk that afternoon. Popped into one of the many bar's that Frank Sinatra was supposed to frequent in Hoboken for a drink. At 3pm at the time of the moment of national remberance nobody in the bar apart from Amy and myself went silent, even although all the tv screens went blank. After the minutes silence Amy upset at what she had seen in the bar and in the street outside mentioned to the bar manager why they had not paid due respect and was told to shut up, but in not so polite a fashion.

Now maybe I have been in the wrong place at the wrong time but I was not left with the impression of a nation respecting their service people, especially considering that this this was in 2002, 9 months after the events across the river from Hoboken.

Maybe I am completely in the wrong here but it appeared to me that US citizens when in a situation or place like you have mentioned like sea-world, or at large sporting event etc will observe the playing of the anthem etc but when left to commemorate something on their own are not as respectful.

As I say maybe completely wrong but this was the impression I got.