Campbeltown to Ballycastle Ferry

[KERTERSKID]

Dae you waant to keep all that loovely sunshine for yersel' Sweltered? 200 to 400 a day is thoosands.
A start!
We need mair thoosands, and for that we need every asistance. Before the cert follows the horse, they have tae be yoked.

[Sweltered]

Dae you waant to keep all that loovely sunshine for yersel' Sweltered? 200 to 400 a day is thoosands.
A start!
We need mair thoosands, and for that we need every asistance. Before the cert follows the horse, they have tae be yoked.

No, 200 to 400 is hundreds, you need thousands PER DAY. And even then, unless there is a major attraction employing a large number of people, there will be very few jobs created, due to tourism. Scenery is for day trippers, who don't spend money, but then again theres nothing for them to spend their money on

[Trapper]

So where are they spending their money? Tourism is not the answer, there isn't anything to attract enough of them. For the tourism industry to make a major improvement in the forseeable future of Kintyre, you would need thousands to come and stay and spend money on something. What though?

Well I'm pretty sure they don'y sleep on park benches! Try getting accomodation in campbeltown in the summer, it's always extremely busy. Tourism ain't the be all and end all , in fact I think it's a horrible way to make a living (having to be nice to folk all day doesn't appeal to me!) , but it doesn't mean you can just discount it. It does bring money to the town and it will bring more. I don't know whether you're suggesting we build a glut of theme parks like you've got there in Florida for folk to spend money on or what?

[4th gen Suthen']

The attractions are all here now.

Golf, Kintyre Way walk, hill walking, Angus Martin's 16 walks in South Kintyre, Davaar Island, boat trips, surfing, great beaches, peace, quiet and solitude.... or a busy and hectic night life, if wanted. The slow pace of life in Kintyre, if wanted..........friendly people, busy harbours, good places to eat.......a history to be learned and explored.....and much, much more.

We could never create or build the type attraction that would make the masses here....would we want that anyway?

If the ferry runs, people will use it. Some will drive straight out of town without pausing or spending a penny but by using the ferry they will have contributed. And they will spend their money somewhere in West Scotland. Many will stay and enjoy Kintyre, others might come and spent just one night and then catch the morning ferry to Ballycastle. They will have contributed too.

People who I trust,and who's opinion and business sense I respect, have studied the route and believe it to be viable.
Lets just hope they get the chance to make it a success.

[EMDEE]

I must agree with 4th gen Suthen' that Kintyre has its own unique attractions which are assets in the promotion of the area in a niche market. It is unlike any other area of Scotland, historically, culturally or environmentally, and there is great potential to build on what is here and use the tourism route as part of a strategy for economic regeneration of the peninsula.

Kintyre is not a stereotypical tourist destination like any other place. You have to build on your strengths, not concentrate on highlighting and underlining what you cannot provide to the visitor, as some of the posts on this thread have done. This is a defeatist and unconstructive approach to the issue.

We would not be able to nor should we want to create another Blackpool or, closer to home, Oban.

[EMDEE]

As this discussion is actually entitled “Campbeltown to Ballycastle Ferry”, here are some of my observations on the issue.

The most prosperous times for Kintyre and Campbeltown were when the principal method of transport for areas such as this was by sea. Historically it was the sea that made Kintyre prosperous, with the trade that could be generated by having indigenous industries exporting by cargo vessels.

During the course of the 20th Century, the advent of road and air transport revolutionised the commercial world. Air transport has been long established in Kintyre, but we can discount it as a major factor in economic regeneration of the peninsula, as it is not sizeable enough in the wider picture of things to be cost effective at the moment.

This leaves us with road transport, which has been by far our main method of trade with the outside world for many decades, which involves the 130 odd miles to Glasgow, before even going anywhere else.

It is the long road journey that makes Campbeltown remote, more than its geographical position within the British Isles.

What we need to remember here is that Campbeltown is almost at the end of the longest peninsula in the British Isles, and by virtue of this fact, is one of the most remote towns on the UK mainland. However, If Kintyre was pivoted at the Mull, and turned facing east, you would be well into Ayrshire by the time you reached Tarbert.

In some ways, it is at a greater geographical disadvantage than many island settlements. As the crow flies, our nearest major city is Belfast, not Glasgow, and the twelve miles of sea between the Mull of Kintyre and the coast of Northern Ireland is what has prevented business links from being established between the two communities, which would have been helpful for the advancement of economic development within the peninsula.

The seasonal ferry service that ran during the late 1990s was arguably not indicative of the potential for economic cooperation that could be built up, as no business person with any sense is going to expand their operations into an area and customer base from which it is effectively cut off for most of the year. We cannot therefore regard that service as being a “trial run”.

This is how the ferry would create employment in Kintyre, through the opening up of new markets for businesses on both sides of the North Channel. It is neither an overnight solution nor a panacea for Kintyre’s problems, but when the infrastructure is in place, the opportunity is there for both communities to make the service worthwhile, viable, and justifiable. For example, if the ferry was running all year round, and became well established, it would be logistically easier for a future manufacturing business in Kintyre to export to the Republic of Ireland than to England, or even parts of Scotland. The potential for economic development in Kintyre would be enhanced dramatically.

So far as the tourism industry is concerned, I know that there was a considerable number of Irish tourists using the previous ferry service as a way of accessing the Scottish mainland, and the Kintyre tourism industry would have to develop on what is already in place to persuade as many of them as possible to wait here rather than just using it as an entry point.

I would submit that this is a project on which it is worth spending “enthusiasm, energy, time and money”.

[gizmo]

I know it has been said before but it still makes sense to me, the Campbeltown to Ballycastle ferry will always struggle but would stand a very good chance as part of a 3 port set up with Ayr. Dragging your wearie bones all the way down the road from Glasgow before catching the ferry isnt an atractive thought for most I would have thought, but relaxing on board the ferry before arriving in Cn would make all the differance surely.

[Sweltered]

I mentioned tourism, because that is the only benefit the ferry would bring, or that is the only thing anyone mentions. I'm not suggesting a theme park, but that would be one way to go, but that's never going to happen. To be fair, there's not that much accomodation for visitors in Kintyre, so it wouldn't take much for it to be busy. Nobody seems to know what the other benefits would be, so I stuck with the tourism angle. I'll refer to my earlier point, people have mentioned the walks, the golf etc before, but they have been around for a long time and the number of visitors hasn't been overwhelming. If people wanted to go there, they would do so already, the ferry isn't going to attract them in droves.

[EMDEE]

There appear to be two separate issues being debated here. One is the ferry, and the other is tourism.

It is not necessarily logical to discuss these issues in conjunction with each other, and they should be separated. The tourism discussion is clouding the issue of the ferry by becoming perceived as the main reason why the ferry should be pursued. Even in the absence of a ferry connection, the tourism industry in Kintyre has a much greater potential than it is currently achieving.

Although the tourism aspect of the ferry will be of importance to its viability, there are other considerations, as I have put forward in my previous post.

As I have already stated, the ferry would not be an overnight solution to Kintyre's problems, it would take years to establish the kind of links that would be of benefit to both sides of the route, and require a lot of investment of time, effort and money on both sides, by both public and private sectors.

So far as the tourism industry is concerned, the theme park idea is, I hope, a joke. It is completely alien to the ethos of the kind of strengths that Kintyre has on which to build a stronger tourism industry.

There is nothing wrong with an economy that has a substantial element of tourism. It is a legitimate industry, and in its widest sense it is the biggest single industry in the world. One of the problems is that in this country, tourism has come to be associated with low wages, bad working conditions, exploitation and a kind of sleazy image almost akin to prostitution. Nevertheless, it has been used throughout the world as a tool for economic regeneration, but if a tourist destination is not promoted appropriately, and aimed at the right market, the number of visitors will not increase.

Kintyre is marketed as part of the Argyll, the Islands, Loch Lomond, Stirling and Trossachs area, which in itself is a problem when we are competing within that area with a National Park, and Oban, which is apparently Scotland’s second most popular tourist destination. Maybe it would be better if Kintyre had a bit more autonomy within VisitScotland.

[Sweltered]

There appear to be two separate issues being debated here. One is the ferry, and the other is tourism.

It is not necessarily logical to discuss these issues in conjunction with each other, and they should be separated. The tourism discussion is clouding the issue of the ferry by becoming perceived as the main reason why the ferry should be pursued. Even in the absence of a ferry connection, the tourism industry in Kintyre has a much greater potential than it is currently achieving.

Although the tourism aspect of the ferry will be of importance to its viability, there are other considerations, as I have put forward in my previous post.

As I have already stated, the ferry would not be an overnight solution to Kintyre's problems, it would take years to establish the kind of links that would be of benefit to both sides of the route, and require a lot of investment of time, effort and money on both sides, by both public and private sectors.

So far as the tourism industry is concerned, the theme park idea is, I hope, a joke. It is completely alien to the ethos of the kind of strengths that Kintyre has on which to build a stronger tourism industry.

There is nothing wrong with an economy that has a substantial element of tourism. It is a legitimate industry, and in its widest sense it is the biggest single industry in the world. One of the problems is that in this country, tourism has come to be associated with low wages, bad working conditions, exploitation and a kind of sleazy image almost akin to prostitution. Nevertheless, it has been used throughout the world as a tool for economic regeneration, but if a tourist destination is not promoted appropriately, and aimed at the right market, the number of visitors will not increase.

Kintyre is marketed as part of the Argyll, the Islands, Loch Lomond, Stirling and Trossachs area, which in itself is a problem when we are competing within that area with a National Park, and Oban, which is apparently Scotland’s second most popular tourist destination. Maybe it would be better if Kintyre had a bit more autonomy within VisitScotland.

SO WHAT IS THE FERRY GOING TO ATTRACT!!

[EMDEE]

This is how the ferry would create employment in Kintyre, through the opening up of new markets for businesses on both sides of the North Channel. It is neither an overnight solution nor a panacea for Kintyre’s problems, but when the infrastructure is in place, the opportunity is there for both communities to make the service worthwhile, viable, and justifiable. For example, if the ferry was running all year round, and became well established, it would be logistically easier for a future manufacturing business in Kintyre to export to the Republic of Ireland than to England, or even parts of Scotland. The potential for economic development in Kintyre would be enhanced dramatically.

So far as the tourism industry is concerned, I know that there was a considerable number of Irish tourists using the previous ferry service as a way of accessing the Scottish mainland, and the Kintyre tourism industry would have to develop on what is already in place to persuade as many of them as possible to wait here rather than just using it as an entry point.

I have already stated my case.

[ionnsaigh]

The ferry link should be restored as quickly as possible- This should be a public service run by the state. I wonder how many people in Kintyre used the last- alas ill fated route. Its all very well asking how many visitors this would attract- however that isn't really the issue. You don't run the local bus service on the basis of how many tourists it attracts to Kintyre - it is their to be used by the local people and as such provide a service to the community. The excuse of remote geographical location, shouldn't in this day and age be a reason for not providing, what most of us in the cities take for granted, a complete transport system. The current stagnation of affairs clearly shows how ineffective our highly paid representatives are. Why do we rely entirely on these parasites - who at every turn praise and applaud the system that encourages little in the way of people power and direct action- they the politicians ultimately act to preserve the status quo as it justifies their very existence- an existence that stuns and hinders the people to claim what is rightly theirs in the first place. I suppose you have to ask yourselves how much do you want the service? It could be up and running in Six Months, if you where to take the right course of collective action. Any campaign that has direct economic impact on local government would quickly succeed in their objectives and send warning signals to the Two parliaments. Why should you expect the Morally bankrupt dictates of the Scottish labour controlled whorehouse in Edinburgh to deliver the goods. Perhaps the time has come for people to stand on their own Two feet and demand whats rightly theirs.
Or has the fight been truly extinguished from the heart of the Scottish People?

[John S]

SO WHAT IS THE FERRY GOING TO ATTRACT!!

Sorry for not coming back to you earlier Sweltered, but these issues have been addressed many times on the various ferry threads, which have appeared here over the last few years. It gets quite frustrating to be repeating them now when to a greater extend, the argument on the potential benefit the ferry may bring, has been won with the economic development agencies and the Scottish Executive.

Please see this link below. The answers to your queries are under the FAQ section. If you have any further questions I will be happy to oblige.

http://www.dbag.org/

What is important right now, is that as much pressure as possible is brought to bare on politicians to find a solution to what is a political obstacle so please - if you are supportive and have not already done so, email the following to vent your spleen.

Your MSP - George.Lyon.msp@scottish.parliament.uk
First Minister - Jack.Mcconnell.msp@scottish.parliament.uk
Douglas Alexander MP, Scottish Secretary – scottish.secretary@scotland.gsi.gov.uk

It would also help if you can look at your own email contact list and contact anyone you know who might be interested in supporting the service, get them to email the above expressing displeasure - you can make a difference.

[Sweltered]

This is how the ferry would create employment in Kintyre, through the opening up of new markets for businesses on both sides of the North Channel. It is neither an overnight solution nor a panacea for Kintyre’s problems, but when the infrastructure is in place, the opportunity is there for both communities to make the service worthwhile, viable, and justifiable. For example, if the ferry was running all year round, and became well established, it would be logistically easier for a future manufacturing business in Kintyre to export to the Republic of Ireland than to England, or even parts of Scotland. The potential for economic development in Kintyre would be enhanced dramatically.

So far as the tourism industry is concerned, I know that there was a considerable number of Irish tourists using the previous ferry service as a way of accessing the Scottish mainland, and the Kintyre tourism industry would have to develop on what is already in place to persuade as many of them as possible to wait here rather than just using it as an entry point.

I have already stated my case.

No, you said the "potential for econmic developement would be enhanced dramatically" How so? That is my point, the ferry is being spoken about as the saviour of the area, but no-one seems to know how it will achieve this.

[John S]

The ferry link should be restored as quickly as possible- This should be a public service run by the state.

It would be much longer than 12 months if you expect a state owned company to operate the route (and much more than £1M subsidy, I think Calmac may have suggested 2.4M for the route summer only) while I agree that State control of certain universal utilities is advantageous. Sea transport will always operate in a commercially competitive market (pre the glorious revolution of course ionnsaigh) so commercially competitive thinking should be employed in delivery mechanisms.