Campbeltown to Ballycastle Ferry

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Postby Sweltered » Mon Oct 16, 2006 11:13 am

John S wrote:
Sweltered wrote:SO WHAT IS THE FERRY GOING TO ATTRACT!!


Sorry for not coming back to you earlier Sweltered, but these issues have been addressed many times on the various ferry threads, which have appeared here over the last few years. It gets quite frustrating to be repeating them now when to a greater extend, the argument on the potential benefit the ferry may bring, has been won with the economic development agencies and the Scottish Executive.

Please see this link below. The answers to your queries are under the FAQ section. If you have any further questions I will be happy to oblige.

http://www.dbag.org/

What is important right now, is that as much pressure as possible is brought to bare on politicians to find a solution to what is a political obstacle so please - if you are supportive and have not already done so, email the following to vent your spleen.

Your MSP - George.Lyon.msp@scottish.parliament.uk
First Minister - Jack.Mcconnell.msp@scottish.parliament.uk
Douglas Alexander MP, Scottish Secretary – scottish.secretary@scotland.gsi.gov.uk


It would also help if you can look at your own email contact list and contact anyone you know who might be interested in supporting the service, get them to email the above expressing displeasure - you can make a difference.


Maybe I'm reading it wrong, but this just mentions tourism and haulage traffic. Unless there is a staging area for the building materials going to Ireland, then the haulage companies are not going to be a benefit to the area. All that will bring is the destruction of an already crappy road surface.

Enough's been said about the tourism angle.

I know a lot of people are working very hard to get this ferrry restarted, but I still fail to see how it is going to regenerate the area, apart from tourism
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Postby EMDEE » Mon Oct 16, 2006 11:44 am

Sweltered wrote:
EMDEE wrote:
EMDEE wrote:This is how the ferry would create employment in Kintyre, through the opening up of new markets for businesses on both sides of the North Channel. It is neither an overnight solution nor a panacea for Kintyre’s problems, but when the infrastructure is in place, the opportunity is there for both communities to make the service worthwhile, viable, and justifiable. For example, if the ferry was running all year round, and became well established, it would be logistically easier for a future manufacturing business in Kintyre to export to the Republic of Ireland than to England, or even parts of Scotland. The potential for economic development in Kintyre would be enhanced dramatically.

So far as the tourism industry is concerned, I know that there was a considerable number of Irish tourists using the previous ferry service as a way of accessing the Scottish mainland, and the Kintyre tourism industry would have to develop on what is already in place to persuade as many of them as possible to wait here rather than just using it as an entry point.


I have already stated my case.


No, you said the "potential for econmic developement would be enhanced dramatically" How so? That is my point, the ferry is being spoken about as the saviour of the area, but no-one seems to know how it will achieve this.


This is,in fact my case, that "the potential for economic development in Kintyre would be greatly enhanced", and I have already explained why I believe this to be the case. If you look at the link provided by John S (DBAG) you will see that I am not the only one who believes this.

The fact is that a ferry link to Northern Ireland will give access from Kintyre to an island with a population of approximately 5,000,000. If that is not going to create business opportunities, then we might as well turn the lights off and shut the door on Kintyre.
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Postby John S » Mon Oct 16, 2006 12:30 pm

Sweltered wrote:[Enough's been said about the tourism angle.


Is that you accepting the tourism argument?
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Postby general jack o'niell » Mon Oct 16, 2006 2:09 pm

deleted due to apathy on my part
Last edited by general jack o'niell on Wed Oct 18, 2006 2:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Sweltered » Mon Oct 16, 2006 6:11 pm

John S wrote:
Sweltered wrote:[Enough's been said about the tourism angle.


Is that you accepting the tourism argument?


Nope, just accepted that the dead horse has been sufficiently flogged
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Postby Sweltered » Mon Oct 16, 2006 6:16 pm

EMDEE wrote:
Sweltered wrote:
EMDEE wrote:
EMDEE wrote:This is how the ferry would create employment in Kintyre, through the opening up of new markets for businesses on both sides of the North Channel. It is neither an overnight solution nor a panacea for Kintyre’s problems, but when the infrastructure is in place, the opportunity is there for both communities to make the service worthwhile, viable, and justifiable. For example, if the ferry was running all year round, and became well established, it would be logistically easier for a future manufacturing business in Kintyre to export to the Republic of Ireland than to England, or even parts of Scotland. The potential for economic development in Kintyre would be enhanced dramatically.

So far as the tourism industry is concerned, I know that there was a considerable number of Irish tourists using the previous ferry service as a way of accessing the Scottish mainland, and the Kintyre tourism industry would have to develop on what is already in place to persuade as many of them as possible to wait here rather than just using it as an entry point.


I have already stated my case.



No, you said the "potential for econmic developement would be enhanced dramatically" How so? That is my point, the ferry is being spoken about as the saviour of the area, but no-one seems to know how it will achieve this.


This is,in fact my case, that "the potential for economic development in Kintyre would be greatly enhanced", and I have already explained why I believe this to be the case. If you look at the link provided by John S (DBAG) you will see that I am not the only one who believes this.

The fact is that a ferry link to Northern Ireland will give access from Kintyre to an island with a population of approximately 5,000,000. If that is not going to create business opportunities, then we might as well turn the lights off and shut the door on Kintyre.


I'm going to change my name to McPherson.

Simple question. What businesses do you think would be attracted to the area if the ferry returns?
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Postby EMDEE » Mon Oct 16, 2006 9:56 pm

What businesses are going to be attracted to the area if the status quo persists?
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Postby Sweltered » Mon Oct 16, 2006 11:03 pm

EMDEE wrote:What businesses are going to be attracted to the area if the status quo persists?


Now changing my name to McPherson O'neill.

I don't know, that's why I'm asking. From your responses, I can only assume that you have less of an idea than I have.
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Postby EMDEE » Tue Oct 17, 2006 12:06 am

I am at a complete loss as to why you have such a "bee in your bunnet" against the ferry, and can see that there is no point in even trying to persuade you otherwise. Even if you actually do believe it would be a failure, what is the harm in trying it to prove either the "for" or "against" camps wrong. The cost to the public purse would be insignificant compared to much of the profligacy that already exists.

"Convince a man against his will, he's of the same opinion still", except there does not appear to be any prospect of convincing in this case.

I feel that you are taking a very simplistic and short-term view of the situation. economic benefits will not be immediate, but they would undoubtedly come when the infrastructure is in place, and the link is well established, without the prospect of disappearing again after a few years.

Neither you nor I have a crystal ball, and to ask what businesses I think are going to be attracted to the area is really a red herring, as it is impossible for anyone to answer this. The important thing is that the opportunity is created for existing and new businesses on both sides of the North Channel. They would both have substantially extended potential customer areas in which to sell their products and sevices. Surely that is obvious to anyone.

I don't want to have to reiterate all that I have said already, but feel that I have started to do that.
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Postby Sweltered » Tue Oct 17, 2006 1:07 am

EMDEE wrote:I am at a complete loss as to why you have such a "bee in your bunnet" against the ferry, and can see that there is no point in even trying to persuade you otherwise. Even if you actually do believe it would be a failure, what is the harm in trying it to prove either the "for" or "against" camps wrong. The cost to the public purse would be insignificant compared to much of the profligacy that already exists.

"Convince a man against his will, he's of the same opinion still", except there does not appear to be any prospect of convincing in this case.

I feel that you are taking a very simplistic and short-term view of the situation. economic benefits will not be immediate, but they would undoubtedly come when the infrastructure is in place, and the link is well established, without the prospect of disappearing again after a few years.

Neither you nor I have a crystal ball, and to ask what businesses I think are going to be attracted to the area is really a red herring, as it is impossible for anyone to answer this. The important thing is that the opportunity is created for existing and new businesses on both sides of the North Channel. They would both have substantially extended potential customer areas in which to sell their products and sevices. Surely that is obvious to anyone.

I don't want to have to reiterate all that I have said already, but feel that I have started to do that.


What gave you the idea I'm against the ferry, I'm just interested as to why the ferry is seen as the great saviour of Kintyre. Would you rather people just blindly accepted everything without question?

I think the ferry is a great idea, but I don't think its going to be the golden goose that people think it is.

What about a factory making windows for the building trade, or kits for houses (a la Alba Delta). Mention has been made of the high cost of building materials in Ireland, so theres a couple of ideas for you.

See how easy that was.
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Postby John S » Tue Oct 17, 2006 9:59 am

Sweltered, I don't want to have to, yet again, go through the pros and cons of how the service between Ballycastle and Campbeltown will benefit the area. Its all been done before, and I don't have time right now. If you PM me with your email I'll attach a file which will give you more information.
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Postby EMDEE » Tue Oct 17, 2006 10:16 am

Sweltered wrote:
EMDEE wrote:I am at a complete loss as to why you have such a "bee in your bunnet" against the ferry, and can see that there is no point in even trying to persuade you otherwise. Even if you actually do believe it would be a failure, what is the harm in trying it to prove either the "for" or "against" camps wrong. The cost to the public purse would be insignificant compared to much of the profligacy that already exists.

"Convince a man against his will, he's of the same opinion still", except there does not appear to be any prospect of convincing in this case.

I feel that you are taking a very simplistic and short-term view of the situation. economic benefits will not be immediate, but they would undoubtedly come when the infrastructure is in place, and the link is well established, without the prospect of disappearing again after a few years.

Neither you nor I have a crystal ball, and to ask what businesses I think are going to be attracted to the area is really a red herring, as it is impossible for anyone to answer this. The important thing is that the opportunity is created for existing and new businesses on both sides of the North Channel. They would both have substantially extended potential customer areas in which to sell their products and sevices. Surely that is obvious to anyone.

I don't want to have to reiterate all that I have said already, but feel that I have started to do that.


What gave you the idea I'm against the ferry, I'm just interested as to why the ferry is seen as the great saviour of Kintyre. Would you rather people just blindly accepted everything without question?

I think the ferry is a great idea, but I don't think its going to be the golden goose that people think it is.

What about a factory making windows for the building trade, or kits for houses (a la Alba Delta). Mention has been made of the high cost of building materials in Ireland, so theres a couple of ideas for you.

See how easy that was.

It’s good to hear that you are not anti-ferry, but just questioning why the ferry is being seen in such an optimistic light.

I don’t particularly like the expression “Saviour of Kintyre”, as I have heard it too often in the past in connection with projects that have subsequently gone pear-shaped.

The difference between previous projects and the proposed ferry is that the ferry is a service that can be used by the entire business community, including any businesses with aspirations to expand and sell to a bigger market. Although in itself the ferry will be an employer, this should not be the reasoning behind lending support. It is the effect of the service as a facilitator for economic activity that is the whole point of supporting it, and it is the economic activity that will make the ferry viable.

This differs from previous projects where companies have been encouraged to set up a manufacturing unit in the area and we have finished up with a lot of our eggs in one basket. We know the results of that.

I appreciate what you are saying about over-high hopes for what the ferry could achieve, but it already appears to have support from a wide cross-section of the business community, and this is encouraging. If it is up and running, it is then up to these same supporters to turn their support into investment and economic activity. Again I would state that any business which was going to use this service would need to have a cast-iron guarantee that the service was going to continue, and run all year round.

I would actually envisage a much wider cross-section of economic activity than the building materials/building kits industry that you have suggested. This is why I have not been forthcoming with suggestions as to what kinds of businesses could set up or expand. The economy is too complex and subject to too many external forces to predict anything. I would suggest however that the building kits etc. industry is a highly competitive and volatile market, and is possibly not what we would be looking for if we want to see sustainable growth in the local economy, although I don’t think anything should be ruled out.
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Postby general jack o'niell » Tue Oct 17, 2006 4:48 pm

deleted due to apathy on my part
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Postby Sweltered » Tue Oct 17, 2006 10:02 pm

general jack o'niell wrote:welcome to the o'niell family sweltered, do you want me to be your big bruvva and buff these bad boys that want to take your opinions away from you, disillusioned as they are?


No, don't strain yourself, I don't know if Emdee is a politician, but should be, I haven't heard so much double talk and dancing around a subject since Jim Hacker spoke to Sir Humphrey Appleby. On the Action Group website, in the faq's , benefits listed are haulage (truckers won't contribute to the economy), Tourism (not enough accomodation as it stands today), and Vestas even gets a mention. The cost of materials for the building trade was mentioned, but apparently this is industry is too volatile and risky. A broad range of opportunities will appear after the infrastructure is in place for a few years apparently. What these will be is anyone's guess, but a bakery might be in order, Pie in the Sky seems to be very popular nowadays.

I hope better arguments are being submitted to those making the ultimate decision. It seems to be give us a ferry, because we want it and maybe somebody will possibly open a business after a few years. maybe.

Aye that'll work
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irish ferry

Postby foxbar » Wed Oct 18, 2006 12:47 am

why is everybody in campbeltown alway's obsessed wae irish ferry's?that's all you ever hear ,what about one to the ayrshire coast instead of relying on the irish office who quite clearly coodnae care less :twisted:
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