Campbeltown to Ballycastle Ferry

[EMDEE]

Fair point.

[EMDEE]

welcome to the o'niell family sweltered, do you want me to be your big bruvva and buff these bad boys that want to take your opinions away from you, disillusioned as they are?

No, don't strain yourself, I don't know if Emdee is a politician, but should be, I haven't heard so much double talk and dancing around a subject since Jim Hacker spoke to Sir Humphrey Appleby. On the Action Group website, in the faq's , benefits listed are haulage (truckers won't contribute to the economy), Tourism (not enough accomodation as it stands today), and Vestas even gets a mention. The cost of materials for the building trade was mentioned, but apparently this is industry is too volatile and risky. A broad range of opportunities will appear after the infrastructure is in place for a few years apparently. What these will be is anyone's guess, but a bakery might be in order, Pie in the Sky seems to be very popular nowadays.

I hope better arguments are being submitted to those making the ultimate decision. It seems to be give us a ferry, because we want it and maybe somebody will possibly open a business after a few years. maybe.

Aye that'll work

Haulage:

Believe it or not, haulage will help to make the ferry service viable. You do not appear to appreciate this fact. Also, you cannot simply assume that haulage firms will not use local services in order to justify your wholly negative cause.

Tourism:

You are stating the obvious here when you state that there is not enough accommodation as it stands today. I think anybody would agree with this. Do you honestly think that people are going to open up hotels and guest houses before there is a discernible increase in the demand for this service? Do I take this to mean that you think tourism in Kintyre is at a level that we have just got to accept and avoid any action that might create a more vibrant tourist economy? I suggest you check out the following:

www.scotland.gov.uk/Publications/2006/03/03145848/0

Probably this is also Pie in the Sky.

Vestas:

I have no comment to make on this, apart from agreeing with you that it gets a mention.

Building Trade:

I am giving you my firm personal opinion when I say that the building industry is in a competitive and volatile market. The building trade is at the mercy of so many factors that it is a risky industry to be in. The particular firm that you quoted as an example is from 30 years ago, and hasn’t existed for almost as long as this. Of course, maybe if we had a ferry to Ballycastle 30 years ago?

Generally, I think that you have adopted too much of a one dimensional view of this whole issue. There are a lot of unknowns in planning any project, and you now appear to be trying to use sarcasm and ridicule to replace logical argument.

I do not speak for DBAG, but can see that much research on both sides of the North Channel has gone into the putting together of their campaign by people with a more intimate knowledge of the potential and the challenges of this project than Sweltered has access to.

[Sweltered]

welcome to the o'niell family sweltered, do you want me to be your big bruvva and buff these bad boys that want to take your opinions away from you, disillusioned as they are?

No, don't strain yourself, I don't know if Emdee is a politician, but should be, I haven't heard so much double talk and dancing around a subject since Jim Hacker spoke to Sir Humphrey Appleby. On the Action Group website, in the faq's , benefits listed are haulage (truckers won't contribute to the economy), Tourism (not enough accomodation as it stands today), and Vestas even gets a mention. The cost of materials for the building trade was mentioned, but apparently this is industry is too volatile and risky. A broad range of opportunities will appear after the infrastructure is in place for a few years apparently. What these will be is anyone's guess, but a bakery might be in order, Pie in the Sky seems to be very popular nowadays.

I hope better arguments are being submitted to those making the ultimate decision. It seems to be give us a ferry, because we want it and maybe somebody will possibly open a business after a few years. maybe.

Aye that'll work

Haulage:

Believe it or not, haulage will help to make the ferry service viable. You do not appear to appreciate this fact. Also, you cannot simply assume that haulage firms will not use local services in order to justify your wholly negative cause.

Tourism:

You are stating the obvious here when you state that there is not enough accommodation as it stands today. I think anybody would agree with this. Do you honestly think that people are going to open up hotels and guest houses before there is a discernible increase in the demand for this service? Do I take this to mean that you think tourism in Kintyre is at a level that we have just got to accept and avoid any action that might create a more vibrant tourist economy? I suggest you check out the following:

www.scotland.gov.uk/Publications/2006/03/03145848/0

Probably this is also Pie in the Sky.

Vestas:

I have no comment to make on this, apart from agreeing with you that it gets a mention.

Building Trade:

I am giving you my firm personal opinion when I say that the building industry is in a competitive and volatile market. The building trade is at the mercy of so many factors that it is a risky industry to be in. The particular firm that you quoted as an example is from 30 years ago, and hasn’t existed for almost as long as this. Of course, maybe if we had a ferry to Ballycastle 30 years ago?

Generally, I think that you have adopted too much of a one dimensional view of this whole issue. There are a lot of unknowns in planning any project, and you now appear to be trying to use sarcasm and ridicule to replace logical argument.

I do not speak for DBAG, but can see that much research on both sides of the North Channel has gone into the putting together of their campaign by people with a more intimate knowledge of the potential and the challenges of this project than Sweltered has access to.

Ok

Yes haulage companies will make the ferry viable, my point was that will not help the Kintyre economy, the lorries just pass through going elsewhere.
IF the ferry attracts more toursits to the area, where do they stay, the comment about the lack of accomodation was not mine, I was merely repeating it. If the the number of rooms available does not increase, than obviously a saturation point will be reached, this is not rocket science.

Wasn't there a ferry 30 some years ago? And yes that house kit firm went out of business 30 years ago, but the market for kit homes hardly existed then, Have they stopped building houses over there? That was just an example of a business, that I pulled out of thin air as a suggesttion, since you wern't going to give me any (and still haven't). I just want to know what kind of business have would be tempted to set up in Kintyre, it's a simple question, it;s not a binding contract that you have to sell your house and set one up. As you say I've not got a clue about waht's going on in teh background, but I suggested 2, 3 counting the casino. I have no idea who you are, and I'm not really interested, I just think it's odd that for someone so pro the ferry, that you may have had an idea as to what might work. Or are you planning something?

JohnS is emailing me a paper on the ferry, thanks John.

[general jack o'niell]

deleted due to apathy on my part

[Sweltered]

the big word is hope, bring the ferry and we hope that all else will follow, thats it, pure and simple, theres no guarantees nothing is set in stone it does not mean that the ferry will be followed by the kintyre peninsula turning into a land of milk and honey. but the big but, bring the ferry and we HOPE!!!

you can't crush peoples hopes, you can mock their failure but let them have their hopes!!!!





justice is the handmaiden of the law and they will be cast away by whirlwinds and such!!!!

I'm just asking a simple question. Which seems to have blown up by some into something that its not. So I'll ask it again.

WHAT TYPE OF BUSINESS MAY BE ATTRACTED TO KINTYRE IF THE FERRY IS REINSTATED (OR NOT)?

Im not looking for a guarantee, it was a simple question. If I'd asked who'll play for Scotland in the Elephant Polo World Cup, I would have got at least one speculative response, but ask how the area is to be regenerated and I get nothing ! Curious. And the question was jumped on like I'd miscalled the queen mother for some reason. So after that reaction I began to wonder if it was an emperors new clothes thing.

[general jack o'niell]

deleted due to apathy on my part

[Sweltered]

thats my point theres no answer, just get the ferry and they hope that something will turn up, i don't particularly care one way or the other if nothing turns up, like most i would like the ferry to be there just in case we felt like using it once in a blue moon, tho i will say when we went to banbridge last year the journey was very long, a ferry would have cut that from i think 13hrs down to about 4hrs and that includes the crossing.

like it would be nice to have a ferry that ran all the way to clydebank or the city centre and was free to pensioners with the rest charged a fiver, and every day was sunny and warm and you had a choice of ten favourite records and a book and a luxury item, or am i getting carried away here?

t be honest i found ireland intimidating, the kerbs painted red white and blue, the murals on the buildings, most of the places look like parts of cities we wouldn't enter given a choice, but once you've seen the causeway, wot else is there other than a game at royal portrush, sorry, ireland, been there twice not fussed about ever going back, till next year that is.

Could you not have just humoured me and said a widget factory.

As for the getting to the city center, that'll be a bus then?

Perhaps a rail link woud have been a better idea than a ferry, no it would have got wet, silly me. No really a rail link to arraochar, it could carry all the stuff that might be made one day in Kintyre, that no one wants speculate on. AND tourists of course.

[EMDEE]

Sweltered:

Believe it or not, although I am pro ferry, I am not obsessed about it as foxbar says, and I don't suppose you are either, but when I encounter someone with such bizarre views on the matter as you appear to have, at odds with so many others, I feel that they need to consider the alternative view. This is what I have been trying to do here.

As to what types of business might be encouraged, this is not a matter for my speculation, as the ferry already has the support of a large element of the business community, who presumably have their own ideas about how the ferry is going to benefit each one of them. I am not privy to their plans.

My argument all along has been that the ferry would create business opportunities that don't exist at the moment, and to suggest types of business that might be set up would just widen a discussion that is already wide enough.

Suffice it to say that I would hope that the ferry would catalyse at least some realistic manufacturing and processing industries without having all our eggs in one basket, so that there could be a greater measure of employment and career opportunities in the area. Is this an unreasonable aspiration or vision?

However, it doesn’t matter one iota what types of business you or I think will be set up or attracted to the area, as it is not us who will be setting them up.

As for the ferry that ran in the early 1970s, "The Sound of Islay" then "The Sound of Jura", we have to remember that another factor that was involved here was that parts of Northern Ireland at that time were virtually a war zone. I hope that the progress in this direction will be maintained.

[EMDEE]

Sweltered:

I see that General Jack has introduced a bit of humour into this discussion. Maybe this is the right direction to go.

We obviously have polarised opinions and very little common ground on this issue, and I don't thnk we will get anwhere with each other on this topic if we continue till Hell freezes over.

As I say, maybe we need to lighten up a bit.

[Sweltered]

Sweltered:

I see that General Jack has introduced a bit of humour into this discussion. Maybe this is the right direction to go.

We obviously have polarised opinions and very little common ground on this issue, and I don't thnk we will get anwhere with each other on this topic if we continue till Hell freezes over.

As I say, maybe we need to lighten up a bit.

The attempt to generate a conversations as to what type of business would be attracted to the area seems to be a non starter, so I'll give up wasting my time. And yes, we won't get anywhere if you don't answer questions, don't bother now, I'm bored with it.

[ionnsaigh]

Sweltered:

I see that General Jack has introduced a bit of humour into this discussion. Maybe this is the right direction to go.

We obviously have polarised opinions and very little common ground on this issue, and I don't thnk we will get anwhere with each other on this topic if we continue till Hell freezes over.

As I say, maybe we need to lighten up a bit.

Ping.

[EMDEE]

Pong

[Sheik Yir Erse]

Just spent 3 days reading this thread, sometimes laughing, sometimes crying, sometimes crying with laughter.

Couple of questions on my part (and there's no prejudice attached to these before people start typing in upper case!)

1. If the ferry wasn't going to be subsidised, would it ever get off the ground? The point being if it's not viable standalone to a private operator, surely it's only ever going to be a temporary solution? (Did someone mention the figure of £2.4m?)

2. Does the ferry HAVE to cater for haulage? (forgive me if this is covered in a 5,000 page Scottish Exec briefing)

3. Simple things to improve transport to and from Campbeltown? D'uh - some flights at the weekend would be a good start!

4. What about some FAST 'passenger only' link to Glasgow or the Ayrshire coast? I'm sure you could get to Troon in less than an hour, and you're only 40 minutes on the train to Central Glasgow. If someone really thought about it you could probably buy 1 ticket to cover both parts of the journey (that might be an integrated transport policy?) Just think of leaving Campbeltown at 08:00 on Saturday morning and quite comfortably at Central station for 9:30. There's quite alot of golfers in Ayrshire - they might be interested in coming the other way?

5. Someone mentioned earlier that there were good places to eat in Campbeltown, well I would dispute that from a tourist perspective - there are places to eat but I wouldn't say they attract visitors. Contrast this with Carbost on Skye (where I hear you ask - exactly!) which attracts tourists from all over the world, to somewhere smaller than Kilkenzie. Why? - The Three Chimneys restaurant, in the middle of nowhere. Visitors regularly book 3 months in advance travelling from all over. We've got fantastic local produce, is anyone thinking of attracting a world class restauranteur to Campbeltown? I'm sure they could do alot with the ferry money?

Anyway I admire everyone's optimism for the ferry and their continued battle, but equally people have to be able to question the benefits. Someone asked for suggestions or alterantives, thought this is what I'd try and provide. Some might be cr@p, but I'm quite sure that there should be a thread purely dedicated on how to attract more business to the toon. Put up all the suggestions from everyone and you'd be gauranteed to get at least a couple of gems.

Keep the faith

[Sweltered]

Just spent 3 days reading this thread, sometimes laughing, sometimes crying, sometimes crying with laughter.

Couple of questions on my part (and there's no prejudice attached to these before people start typing in upper case!)

1. If the ferry wasn't going to be subsidised, would it ever get off the ground? The point being if it's not viable standalone to a private operator, surely it's only ever going to be a temporary solution? (Did someone mention the figure of £2.4m?)

2. Does the ferry HAVE to cater for haulage? (forgive me if this is covered in a 5,000 page Scottish Exec briefing)

3. Simple things to improve transport to and from Campbeltown? D'uh - some flights at the weekend would be a good start!

4. What about some FAST 'passenger only' link to Glasgow or the Ayrshire coast? I'm sure you could get to Troon in less than an hour, and you're only 40 minutes on the train to Central Glasgow. If someone really thought about it you could probably buy 1 ticket to cover both parts of the journey (that might be an integrated transport policy?) Just think of leaving Campbeltown at 08:00 on Saturday morning and quite comfortably at Central station for 9:30. There's quite alot of golfers in Ayrshire - they might be interested in coming the other way?

5. Someone mentioned earlier that there were good places to eat in Campbeltown, well I would dispute that from a tourist perspective - there are places to eat but I wouldn't say they attract visitors. Contrast this with Carbost on Skye (where I hear you ask - exactly!) which attracts tourists from all over the world, to somewhere smaller than Kilkenzie. Why? - The Three Chimneys restaurant, in the middle of nowhere. Visitors regularly book 3 months in advance travelling from all over. We've got fantastic local produce, is anyone thinking of attracting a world class restauranteur to Campbeltown? I'm sure they could do alot with the ferry money?

Anyway I admire everyone's optimism for the ferry and their continued battle, but equally people have to be able to question the benefits. Someone asked for suggestions or alterantives, thought this is what I'd try and provide. Some might be cr@p, but I'm quite sure that there should be a thread purely dedicated on how to attract more business to the toon. Put up all the suggestions from everyone and you'd be gauranteed to get at least a couple of gems.

Keep the faith

Oh my good lord someone dared to make a suggestion!

Thanks Sheik, this is exactly what I envisioned when I started asking for suggestions, and as you rightly put it "you'd be gauranteed (sic) to get at least a couple of gems" No fannying about, just simple suggestions.

Thank you thank you thank you

[Buzz Lightyear]

3. Simple things to improve transport to and from Campbeltown? D'uh - some flights at the weekend would be a good start!

cant help agree here, the ferry is dead in the water, transfer the money & improve the infrastructure we already have, the airport is one big under utilised asset that everyone seems to be forgetting about & if we are not careful we may lose this also.