Scotland not a country?

[Annie]

Good one Emdee, got any more???

[Bobbie En Tejas]

I'm not sure you can use someone's statement of 300 years ago as proof of what is today. A lot has changed, boundaries have changed, countries have come and gone, unions have been made, powers have switched hands.... talking about the world in general.

[EMDEE]

The Chapman quote is from 1605, two years after the Union of the Crowns, when a Scottish king (James VI and I) came to the throne. Significantly, Chapman was jailed for his anti-Scottish statements. (Obviously not so much freedom of speech in those days)

The Fergusson quote is from 1773, obviously post Union of the Parliaments in 1707, and is from a poem that is highly critical of a bill that was at the time going through the UK parliament which it was felt would be damaging to Scottish charitable trusts. We have had many instances since then when UK bills and acts of parliament have been passed on a "one size fits all" basis, when the resulting legislation has been felt to be to Scotland's disadvantage.

Although we are now part of the EU, the rivalries between the constituent countries (nations!?) of the UK are still to the forefront.

At the moment we are being told that there is resistance to Gordon Brown becoming Prime Minister because he is Scottish. People seem to forget that Tony Blair is Scottish.

I think that the relevance of these literary quotes is that they demonstrate that some attitudes that are held by many people today have been around for some time.

Our present-day society, beliefs and culture are the result of our history.

[Bobbie En Tejas]

We have had many instances since then when UK bills and acts of parliament have been passed on a "one size fits all" basis, when the resulting legislation has been felt to be to Scotland's disadvantage.

Exactly MD. That is inevitably what happens. An individual becomes part of a group because they feel some protection or security from the group, and sooner or later they lose, they become less defined and blob into the bigger whole. It is what has happened in the US with states losing individual control as the federal government grasps more power, more and more even in my own lifetime. The states gave the federal government the right to be a blanket over them, and before you know it, the government is the ultimate control. Why even have borders?

It is what is happening in europe, and the countries will realize at some point that they no longer make decisions themselves, but something outside themselves now make them. Their voice will becomes weaker in even their own affairs. At what point will they become states, and then at what point will they be powerless or nonexistant entities, except as a description of a location.

[EMDEE]

Ironically, we currently have the reverse happening here in the UK, where there is a feeling in England that Scotland has something that they do not have. (and Wales to a lesser extent)

Many feel that it is wrong to have Scottish MPs voting on English domestic issues when English MPs cannot vote on corresponding Scottish domestic issues because they have been devolved. This is a fair point, but a difficult one to solve without reducing the status of Scottish MPs or devolving further.

Just to clarify my situation, I am not a member of the SNP, and in fact have no political ties.

I believe that it is not necessary to be anti-English to be pro-Scottish, although any union that involves one country with ten times the population of the other is going to cause resentment somewhere along the line. However, I do think that Scotland is well, if not over-represented in the current cabinet.

[ionnsaigh]

Here's an anti-English one:

"Black be the day that e'er to England's ground,
Scotland was eikit by the Union's bond"

(Robert Fergusson, The Ghaists, 1773)

We knew of your coming, red dots as disease shine- in the hue o green bracken

[EMDEE]

Here's an anti-English one:

"Black be the day that e'er to England's ground,
Scotland was eikit by the Union's bond"

(Robert Fergusson, The Ghaists, 1773)

We knew of your coming, red dots as disease shine- in the hue o green bracken

ionnsaigh 2006?

[Annie]

It is what is happening in europe, and the countries will realize at some point that they no longer make decisions themselves, but something outside themselves now make them. Their voice will becomes weaker in even their own affairs. At what point will they become states, and then at what point will they be powerless or nonexistant entities, except as a description of a location.

Although Scotland, being part of UK or GB, whichever you choose to use, may or may not be recognized by others as an individual country, it does in fact have a huge national identity, i.e., tartan, kilts, bagpipes, haggis, Rabbie Burns, West Highland Terriers, Scotch, etc. I could go on and on. Think of any of these things and the origin of each of them is deeply rooted as purely Scotland. When one asks most americans or even australians about their heritage, a great part of them will answer definitively, Scottish, English, Irish or Welsh. None of them say they are "British." So in that regard, it is not only Scottish born people, and expatriots, that believe each of them to be individual countries, but through their own lineage! There are quite a few examples of the same on this very forum!

As for the EU, the Euro will never become the main currency of UK rather than the Pound (in either, Scotland, Ireland, England or Wales), even though it is accepted for the most part in cities such as London, who are more cosmopolitan. Britain has become a member of the EU because of political correctness and to get their two-pennies worth into every argument/ruling, however you see it! UK as a whole, and in days gone past, have ruled a good part of the world with a "stiff upper lip" and will never succumb to the namby pamby ways of the Europeans!

If you have any question, call a Scotsman an Englishman, and visa versa and see the response you get!!!!

[EMDEE]

If you have any question, call a Scotsman an Englishman, and visa versa and see the response you get!!!!

I am reminded of a court case I read of some years ago in the Glasgow Herald where an Asian bus conductor on a Glasgow bus appeared in court on an assault charge for hitting a passenger over the head with his ticket machine. (Bus conductor? that shows you how long ago this was!)

The conductor explained to the Sheriff that the reason he had done this was because the passenger had called him a “Pakistani ba$tard”. He further explained that the reason that he took offence at this was because he was not Pakistani, but Indian. (Presumably he would have been quite happy being called an “Indian ba$tard”)

Nationalistic pride is not confined to the British Isles.

Incidentally, this is my 100th post.

[Bobbie En Tejas]

And a nice addition to the forum, emdee. (To hell with the fact the statement is off topic ... this is where it fits, this is where it goes.. that's that).

[big tony]

come the elections next year vote to make it one, then england can be our friendly neighbours and we can stick up a big leylandi across the border

[bill]

Thats all very well Big Tony,but what about us Scots down here in Bonnie Corby??It's bad enough having to climb Hadrians Wall without also having to climb a great big Leylandi every time we want to come home.

37 years tomorrow(04-11-1969) since I left Campbeltown to come to Bonnie Corby, and still refer to Campbeltown as home.

[EMDEE]

Maybe if we had the Irish ferry up and running anybody down that way could cross the water and come to Kintyre through Ballycastle.

Oops-wrong thread-off topic!

[Annie]

Well Bill, when you want to jump COUNTRIES, i.e., England to Scotland, you'll jees hae tae weech oot yer wee Scotty Passport wae the bagpipes on it, go through the metal detectors, take a blood test and leave all your English gear on the other side! Then given that you have retained your Scottish Brogue, ye might be allowed tae visit yer femly!

Geesh!

[Dr Dog]

Thats all very well Big Tony,but what about us Scots down here in Bonnie Corby??It's bad enough having to climb Hadrians Wall without also having to climb a great big Leylandi every time we want to come home. 37 years tomorrow(04-11-1969) since I left Campbeltown to come to Bonnie Corby, and still refer to Campbeltown as home.

There was a chap from Corby in the pub the other day. Was looking for somewhere to buy up here. Wasn't you was it? Gave him directions to the river at one point.