Is this April 1?

[EMDEE]

I couldn't believe this news item when I heard it.

http://news.uk.msn.com/Article.aspx?cp- ... id=1263377

Next we'll have criminals claiming from public money for loss of earnings from criminal activities while they are inside!

Human rights? ARE WE COMPLETELY DAFT IN THIS COUNTRY?

Maybe the lawyers who are encouraging these criminals to raid the public purse should be locked up as well!

[ionnsaigh]

I feel we have certain duties in civilised society- one is a duty of care, particularly in prison. The service has a commitment to care for prisoners- regardless of their crime. You cant see a person purely as a criminal-it is entirely inappropriate to broad brush any person in an negative fashion-their condition isn't them,( its they the person) that have the condition- not the other way round. Addiction is a common condition amongst all Mammals. To ignore this disease and its dreadful consequences of total withdrawal, are in my opinion tantamount to abuse. Do you really think that the Government would have settled out of court if it hadn't recognised that to impose cold turkey without consent violates Human rights- of course they wouldn't . Cold Turkey is an extremely dangerous form of rehabilitation-added to the Psychological impact of involuntary withdrawal. As a result of Draconian attitudes by some in the prison service the cost of counseling etc etc will be a larger drain on the public purse. We shouldn't let our personal bias cloud or judgement however repugnant we find some things to be. In other words these same officials who allowed this state sanctioned- what after all amounts to torture- should ultimately be tried for Human Rights violations and be dismissed from the service.

[Sweltered]

:shock: I couldn't believe this news item when I heard it.

http://news.uk.msn.com/Article.aspx?cp- ... id=1263377

Next we'll have criminals claiming from public money for loss of earnings from criminal activities while they are inside!

Human rights? ARE WE COMPLETELY DAFT IN THIS COUNTRY?

Maybe the lawyers who are encouraging these criminals to raid the public purse should be locked up as well!

Completely ludicrous. Bring back hard labour! Prision is a punishment first and foremost.

[petewick]

I feel we have certain duties in civilised society- one is a duty of care, particularly in prison. The service has a commitment to care for prisoners- regardless of their crime. You cant see a person purely as a criminal-it is entirely inappropriate to broad brush any person in an negative fashion-their condition isn't them,( its they the person) that have the condition- not the other way round. Addiction is a common condition amongst all Mammals. To ignore this disease and its dreadful consequences of total withdrawal, are in my opinion tantamount to abuse. Do you really think that the Government would have settled out of court if it hadn't recognised that to impose cold turkey without consent violates Human rights- of course they wouldn't . Cold Turkey is an extremely dangerous form of rehabilitation-added to the Psychological impact of involuntary withdrawal. As a result of Draconian attitudes by some in the prison service the cost of counseling etc etc will be a larger drain on the public purse. We shouldn't let our personal bias cloud or judgement however repugnant we find some things to be. In other words these same officials who allowed this state sanctioned- what after all amounts to torture- should ultimately be tried for Human Rights violations and be dismissed from the service.

There's just as much chance of scoring behind the door as there is on the streets, so these individuals will probably use their compo money to faclitate further drug deals in and out of jail.
Get them oot' tae the fields!
Wallkin' Boss.


petewick

[jester and the fool]

yes maybe i do paint them all with the same brush,maybe i am biased,maybe my personal feelings are clouded.The same could be said of others who are on the other side of the fence on this.All i know is that i would like to be able to walk down the street without having the fear of being kidnapped,stabbed,burnt alive,shot,robbed,abused and tortured!robbed from,racially abused because of the colour of my skin or my accent-whatever they may be.Is that not all of our basic human rights.If you get attacked,who exactly do you sue?
"The Fool says ask the person who was convicted if they know who to sue"
This is my personal opinion,and is just one of many from whomever,which we are able to voice freely,but do not have to agree with,and so it goes on and on and on..........

[EMDEE]

I feel we have certain duties in civilised society- one is a duty of care, particularly in prison. The service has a commitment to care for prisoners- regardless of their crime. You cant see a person purely as a criminal-it is entirely inappropriate to broad brush any person in an negative fashion-their condition isn't them,( its they the person) that have the condition- not the other way round. Addiction is a common condition amongst all Mammals. To ignore this disease and its dreadful consequences of total withdrawal, are in my opinion tantamount to abuse. Do you really think that the Government would have settled out of court if it hadn't recognised that to impose cold turkey without consent violates Human rights- of course they wouldn't . Cold Turkey is an extremely dangerous form of rehabilitation-added to the Psychological impact of involuntary withdrawal. As a result of Draconian attitudes by some in the prison service the cost of counseling etc etc will be a larger drain on the public purse. We shouldn't let our personal bias cloud or judgement however repugnant we find some things to be. In other words these same officials who allowed this state sanctioned- what after all amounts to torture- should ultimately be tried for Human Rights violations and be dismissed from the service.

My heart bleeds for them.

This is a self inflicted condition, not a disease that one can contract involuntarily. In any case, I thought that drug abuse was an illegal activity in this country, so the British Government is paying out our money because these people have been prevented from carrying out an illegal activity. Does this make sense?

How many alcoholics are locked up in this country? Should we provide a free bar for all prisoners? Haud me back!!!!

If you can't do the time don't do the crime.

Ionnsaigh, sometimes I can see an underlying logic in your philosophies, but in this case your views just appear to be perverse, and backing up what you perceive to be the underdog, no matter what situation they find themselves in, self-inflicted or not.

[ionnsaigh]

EMDEE

If Its as you say self inflicted- however say for example when someone takes their first sip of alcohol they are not in the strictest terms an alcoholic are they? Addiction is a developmental chronic condition- that requires some degree of understanding the highly complex makeup of human nature, as in all live forms things change from one to the other. You appear to see the addict when having their last hit, when I appear to see the person having their first sip. Each are entirely reasonable and valid points of view- however my own takes into account the seductive and consuming nature of addiction- yours I'm afraid doesn't and by all accounts appears harsh with little in the way of sympathy or understanding the true nature of the disease. Nobody in their right frame of mind when sipping the first sip would willingly wish to contract such a dreadful condition- with this in mind that is what makes it a disease.
All Mammals have the predisposition to addiction- be it sex drugs alcohol computers gambling food anything, you name something that cant be addictive and I rest my case. The difficulty in attempting to legislate that certain things are illegal can never superimpose itself on human nature. It is not that you state that drug abuse is an illegal activity, its not; look at the amount of drunk people at the weekends. What is illegal is the taking a certain category of drugs like Heroin that is illegal not their subsequent abuse. If by your own reckoning that first sip is essentially abusive then you fail to take into account human frailty and as such your judgement is impaired by this fact. As far as our money is concerned the people you take the first sip are probably stakeholders in the our money scenario in other words they pay their tax and such should have a say in the general doings of society.You don't prevent people from carrying out an illegal activity by incarceration, you jail because a law has been broken- if society puts people behind bars that in itself could in some quarters be deemed as reasonable, If society were to deny treatment to convicts that suffer from epileptic seizures or having a heart or live threatening condition then that would be a mark of an uncivilised and vengeful brute society. " If you can't do the time don't do the crime" The severity of punishment acting as a deterrent fails miserably when one considers the ultimate punishment death chiefly in the form of capital punishment you only have to look at the United States to illustrate this fact. I have no prior intentions to necessary back the underdog
as they appear manifestations of an unjust and uncivilised Scotland. My quest is for fairness and justice no more no less.

[Sweltered]

One of the things about Florida is that they have the death penalty and THEY USE IT. Look up John Couey, or go to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jessica_Lunsford. Couey is going to die for what he did. Shame it's going to drag on with appeals.

This guy had an addiction too, would you like to make a case to explain it away?

[jester and the fool]

[quote="Sweltered"]One of the things about Florida is that they have the death penalty and THEY USE IT. Look up John Couey, or go to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jessica_Lunsford. Couey is going to die for what he did. Shame it's going to drag on with appeals.

This guy had an addiction too, would you like to make a case to explain it away?[/quote]

gotta say i read it and am with sweltered. Put yourself in the shoes of Jessica's parents and then lets here about addictions,diseases etc.

[Bobbie En Tejas]

Personally, I see nothing wrong with giving a person writhing in pain some methadone to get him over the hump of the first 3 days of withdrawal. It is cheap, short-term and humane. BUT.....

People make their own choices in life. There are forks in the road of life where people make conscious choices that they KNOW will change their lives one way or the other. People don't accidentally do heroin. It is a choice, not a disease. Epilepsy is not a choice, a heart condition is not a choice. Sticking a needle in your arm is a choice. Helping people who make stupid choices is also a choice.

There is such a thing as personal responsibility. Why is it the people who come to those forks in the road and make good choices are expected by the ones who make bad choices to clean up their messes?

And, ionns, can you ever make a comment in which you don't somehow weave the evil US? You are obsessed...

[ionnsaigh]

One of the things about Florida is that they have the death penalty and THEY USE IT. Look up John Couey, or go to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jessica_Lunsford. Couey is going to die for what he did. Shame it's going to drag on with appeals.

This guy had an addiction too, would you like to make a case to explain it away?

Aye your spot on the death penalty didn't deter did it?

[Sweltered]

Who is talking about a deterrent? I'm talkning about retrobution. People like John Couey will do what they do regardless of treatment or deterrents. Only one cure for it.....
I'm not out in the streets calling for this guy's head. But, he should fry.


If a drug addict can't give up and has to commit crimes to feed their addiction, then remove them from society, and if the persist after release, lock them up longer, third strike should take them to pension age.

[ionnsaigh]

sweltered

All people who are drug addicts don't have to commit crime in order to maintain their addiction, why do you leave rich addicts out of your slender equation. I suppose they represent less of an overall problem to society at large.
Nevertheless they are addicts and as such- would if need required- commit crime to maintain the need. At the end of the day that is what an addiction is- a real need. If we take for example that the perceived need of the addict is at such a degree that it interferes and causes psychological dysfunction to reasoning. If that be the case then how can any court in any land judge that the defendant is fit to plead. As far as the retribution of society is concerned, I on a personal level don't wish, or feel the need for retribution other than taking away liberty from the guilty person- that is all that is required for the safety and security of others. The only things that we fry are bacon and sausages not Human Beings. Unless you wish to completely dehumanise people in order to pacify pangs of conscience- or perhaps more worrying you don't appear to have much in the way of conscience.

[Sweltered]

Why did I leave rich addicts out of the equation?

I didn't. I said

If a drug addict can't give up and has to commit crimes to feed their addiction, then remove them from society, and if the persist after release, lock them up longer, third strike should take them to pension age.

At what point in there did I mention wealth or income? I think you are seeing things. As mentioned before you twist everything. Is it jealousy of people who have more than you? You dont have everything you think you deserve. Perhaps if you spent less time trying to deal with other peoples lives....... Are you trying to atone for some past misdemeanour? It can't be to book a place in heaven, coz you probably don't believe in that.

Or maybe you are achampagne socialist and just feel guilty about it.

And no we don't fry human beings in FLorida either, unless they request it. Old Sparky can be requested by the prisoner as a means of prosecution. They use lethal injection otherwise.

If incarceration is a viable alternative, are you advocating a life sentence meaning a life sentence. Because these people cannot be rehabilitated, they WILL re offend.

Why should I have a conscious about scum like this?

[judge roy bean]

"JUSTICE YOU SONS OF BITCHES!!!"