Is this April 1?

[Bobbie En Tejas]

I just want to see the balance. I have no problem showing compassion to victims, and I have no trouble showing compassion to people who have done things wrong and realize the terribleness of what they've done. They're pain of knowing they caused that much suffering is its own punishment. I don't feel compassion for people who are so arrogant that they feel entitled to victimize anyone for their own gratification, have no remorse, and would do it again given a chance.

And as for the statements that people have not looked into the eyes of the victims.. if you leave your house, you look into their eyes every day.

[Sweltered]

Well put Bobbie

[Topic]

I know I may have said this before Ionnsaigh, but I find it absurd that you condem Sweltered for his views, yet you to admire Stalin, a man who ordered the murder of millions. You preach compassion at all costs, regardless of the crime. THis baffles me as it takes liberalism to a new and dangerous exrteme. As sweltered said, no-one need take responsibility for their actions, in your eyes. Has nobody told you that anarchy won't work?

Also you seem to making a big assumption about Sweltered and whose eyes he's looked into. Do you know him, or what he's been through? If not, be careful what you write. You never know.......

Unless you are the same person, which has crossed my mind.

[Bobbie En Tejas]

I have to admit, there are a few combinations I've thought could be the same person, but never Sweltered and Ionnsaigh. Thats pretty funny

[Annie]

xx

[Sweltered]

Eh no I don't think so!

[petewick]

Eh no I don't think so!

How no?

[Sweltered]

The poetry is the big give away. I store poetry in a place that includes ballet and Jazz, under the heading of "Things you should never subject other people to"

[judge roy bean]

you can add yor taste in music, your sporting allegiences and your list of excuses for mishit golf shots to your list. oh and your jokes when you've got a drink in you too, oh and cheating at board games, this being the season of goodwill i'll leave it there, tho most of these things can apply to a lot of people you know?

that darn genersl for a start, in the drink, golf and board game categories, he makes you look like an amatuer



justice, you sons of bitches


yeee haaaa

[Annie]

[ionnsaigh]

Topic
I have never condemned anyone for their views, on the contrary I applaud and admire the diversity of differing points of opinion, that contribute to the debate. As far as Stalin is concerned this is way off topic Topic. However I would suggest that you learn more about the history of the Soviet Union before condemning someone vilified by the free west as a monster that compares with Hitler. Why in heavens sake is showing compassion, do you think they have the copyright- I have never lowered myself to such a level of depravity to think that I share anything politically relevant with the Middle Class liberals Compassion must include within it's Ethos the recognition of the potentially massive damage to the human psyche if Humans where discouraged for showing concern and the act of being mercyful.

[Sweltered]

I think the reference to Stalin is valid, he was never brought to justice for his crimes, which I think was the whole point of this thread. Are you suggesting the pogroms never happened, or that many hundreds of thousands weren't sent to Siberia?

I think you are very liberal minded too

[Bobbie En Tejas]

Ionns.. do you have children? Did you ever discipline your children with tears in your eyes, knowing you had to make them suffer the consequences of their actions, but hating the fact they had to suffer? You can have compassion for someone, but in society you can't take away punishment or all of society suffers. What kind of kids do you bring up if they never have to take responsibility for their wrongdoing?

If a person has a growth that is killing them, and the only way to take it out is to cause great pain, which is the compassionate thing? To take it out knowing the person will suffer greatly, or do you leave it in because you don't want the person to suffer.

Sometimes the compassionate thing is not the easiest. I don't think anyone is suggesting taking away concern or mercy. As for the prisoners going through withdrawal, I'll repeat that I think it is a very easy, inexpensive thing to help somone through the first few days of withdrawal. I'm not sure why anyone would withhold that.

[ionnsaigh]

Bobbie bobbie bobbie bobbie
Aye- a hiv two fine young men as sons a couldnae ask fur better - being a parent yourself I'm sure you will share these sentiments. However back to the point. You claim that society suffers when it refrains from punishment, could you give me an example please of a society that refrains from punishment, scratch yer heid. What is the purpose of punishment other than mere form, of retribution no more no less. If a child pokes it's finger in the fire, the pain inflicted is- if you like a natural consequence of their actions where then is the need to punish, as they will learn without the burden of extra punishment, perhaps the reason you shed tears is that deep down you where aware of the wrongness of your actions. Punishment belongs to a stage in our evolutionary past where cannibalism and headhunting where deemed the norm. Why do you see the abusive act of punishment as the first and last act of the responsible parent. When I see it as the last and final bastion of a brutal and unsophisticated past. If a person has a cancerous growth then it is surgically removed, pain free thanks to modern anesthetics, however pain and punishment are two completely different things, one being an inherent condition the other an external application. You go on to claim that you have the individuals best interest at stake, or at least I think you do, you advocate suffering for sufferings sake. Sometimes a finger in the fire is more than enough you wouldn't punish your child for such would you?.You further imply that without punishment people cant take responsibility for their actions my two boys clearly contradict this false assumption. How dare we, as a society take away the individual right to consent under the guise of, it is for the best and economically viable, that in itself is not only undesirable it is morally indefensible.

[Sweltered]

To paraphrase Marlin in Finding Nemo...It's like he's talking to us, I know he is!

Filibuster anyone?