900,000 jobs for Kintyre

[Bobbie En Tejas]

Bobbie,
The Marxist who never refers to Marx
The Christian- the bible
The Muslim the Koran
Gives a break, it doesnt suit you trying to be petty.

Ionns, it isn't petty. I feel it is dishonest to plagarize and represent someone else's writings as one's own. When you "refer" to someone else's writings, you make it apparent that the words are not yours. I guess it would have been different if it was a line or two, but this was a long post.. and, on top of that, didn't even respond to Big Bob's question.

[Pete Reek]

Give him time Bobbie.He will have to finish another book before he can answer Large Robert.
You should know the pattern by now.

You got the wee jumble of words about a Marxist.

He is just making up something for Big Bob that's Spencerist.

[ionnsaigh]

Big Bob,

200,000,000 is really a astonishing high number, that can only be seen in terms of a grossly exaggerated estimate. A number that, if correct , would make Hitler a mere misguided boy scout in comparison to Uncle Joe. This has
been, a bone of contention between historians of various hues. Your estimate lies at the extreme end of the scale, one that has been actively propagated by those who control the capitalist means of production.

Your post fails to take into account conditions that prevailed in a country, that dared to adopt a new system, a embryonic system that had at it's very core, a strong desire and obligation to ease the suffering endured by many at the hands of the few. Wither you like it or not, this is indisputable fact.

Your post fails to acknowledge the war, a war where lines of division have been drastically distorted by the writers of history to such an extent, that writers such as yourself seem more, than willing to regurgatate time after time. Who are you really attacking here, as reading between the lines, one gets the impression of social dysfunction on your part. Forget 200, One is, One too many. As a human being I value life, most of the people round me, share this value of life. Is it Stalin or Communism that you hold most vile?.

It matters not- either one attempts to discredit the other by implication. I'm not a monster and would never attempt to justify death in any shape or form, who do you blame, for the deaths in Iraq? one person, Bush, Blair, Bin Laden, The Boy's from the Blackstuff, Big Bob.

[ionnsaigh]

Bobbie,
The Marxist who never refers to Marx
The Christian- the bible
The Muslim the Koran
Gives a break, it doesnt suit you trying to be petty.

Ionns, it isn't petty. I feel it is dishonest to plagarize and represent someone else's writings as one's own. When you "refer" to someone else's writings, you make it apparent that the words are not yours. I guess it would have been different if it was a line or two, but this was a long post.. and, on top of that, didn't even respond to Big Bob's question.

Bobbie forgive me, I felt obliged to answer Big Bob's post first, at least in terms of importance.
Is this your attempt at character assassination, by attempting to tell me how I should, or should not behave.
"You feel" sums it up entirely, Why do you feel the need to transfer your values into mine? What gives you that right to impose. to judge others by your own standards is ill conceived and errornous.
The enormity of moral implications far outweigh those of composser. The reason I used the transcript was that the Comrade in question belonged to the educated section of our common movement, and as such has far greater ability than myself to answer such a question. I mean I feel that this brings into question my integrity as a honest human being. Feel free to ask others if they think I'm devouis in any shape or form.

[Sweltered]

Feel free to ask others if they think I'm devouis in any shape or form.

LOL well there's a loaded question........

Devious, perhaps. Subversive, probably. Misguided, definately.

Oh and by the way plagiarism is a much bigger thing (as it should be) over here.

[ionnsaigh]

Pete Reek,
Spencerist- noo theres a thing - tae say a word- tae be a clown
Give him time Bobbie- a hear you cry - wit like is it- tae be small fry
Tae jump an stomp- tae shout aboot - a hear ye when yer doon
Tae read a book - tae answer Bob - that catcher in the rye.

[ionnsaigh]

Sweltered, Try not worrying too much, I would never add my name to your work

[Sweltered]

If you did, readers would only assume that I had suffered a head trauma

[bill]

I do not claim to be an historian, or to have all the facts, or be certain about what did and what did not happen in Russia.

What I do believe is that General George S. Patton Jnr. had the foresight to see what lay ahead.If he had been allowed to carry out his plan to defeat the Russians what a different Europe we would have today.

No doubt there are some who might disagree.

[Big Bob]

It was actually 20,000,000 I entered in my note not 200,000,000. In Stalin's Russia children were taught to inform on their parents if they spoke against Stalin. The parents disappeared. In fact it was 28.000.000.' He killed more people than any war in history in the name of socialist revolution.' The Soviet presidential archives and Stalin's personal archives have now been opened. The TRUE history has now been written (using these actual documents written at the time) in the book STALIN by Edward Radzinsky. Read and learn.

[Annie]

Found this interesting article about Stalin in Wikpedia. Here is a portion which pertains to the current topic:

Number of victims

Early researchers of the number killed by Stalin's regime were forced to rely largely upon anecdotal evidence, and their estimates range from a low of 3 million to as high as 60 million. But with the collapse of the Soviet Union in 1991, evidence from the Soviet archives finally became available. The government archives record that about 800,000 prisoners were executed (for either political or criminal offences) under Stalin, while another 1.7 million died of privation or other causes in the Gulags and some 389,000 perished during kulak resettlement - a total of about 3 million victims.

Debate continues however, since some historians believe the archival figures to be unreliable. Also, it is generally agreed that the data are incomplete, since some categories of victim were carelessly recorded by the Soviets - such as the victims of ethnic deportations, or of German population transfer in the aftermath of WWII.

Thus, while some archival researchers have posited the number of victims of Stalin's repressions to be no more than about 4 million in total, others believe the number to be considerably higher. Russian writer Vadim Erlikman, for example, has made the following estimations:

Executions 1.5 million,
Gulag 5 million,
Deportations 1.7 million (out of 7.5 million deported),
and
POW's and German civilians 1 million,
for a total of about 9 million victims of repression.

Some have also included the 6 to 8 million victims of the 1932-33 famine. In this case, historians differ as to whether the famine was deliberate - as part of the campaign of repression against kulaks - or simply an unintended consequence of the struggle over forced collectivization. (See also: Holodomor).

Regardless, it appears that a minimum of around 10 million surplus deaths (4 million by repression and 6 million from famine) are attributable to the regime, with a number of recent books suggesting a probable figure of somewhere between 15 to 20 million. Adding 6-8 million famine victims to Erlikman's estimates above, for example, would yield a figure of between 15 and 17 million victims. Pioneering researcher Robert Conquest, meanwhile, has revised his original estimate of up to 30 million victims down to 20 million. Others, however, continue to maintain that their earlier much higher estimates are correct.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stalin#Purges_and_deportations


So the original 20 million quoted is most recent!

I think the total for Hitler was ONLY (gasp) around six million!!!!!!!!!!!

[ionnsaigh]

Annie, Two is greater than One, therefore forget One, focus on Two, at the expense of One.

[Annie]

Touche!!!!!!!

[ionnsaigh]

Big Bob,
I would like, to direct my initial comments in response to two of the words in your final sentence. Read Learn.
If I happen to read anything I may choose to learn from it, or treat it purely as an amusement.
If you happen to think that the archives of any nation contains some record of unbiased truth, then far be for me to tell you, that I have better things to do in this life, than put up with revisionism. Why believe in the Ruskies now, when you never have in the past?.

[Big Bob]

What about Stalin's personal archives?