Iran

[Hadrians hiring!]

Dearest Hadrian.
I think you missed my point It was not about winners or losers. It was about following your convictions or rather ionnsaigh following his convictions. There are no winners in war, it's not like a football match. You dont just jump in the bath them pop into the pub with the lads afterwards

I would quite like to follow my convictions (drunk + disorderly, breach, careless driving etc etc) but I am too old now to get up a good heid o' steam(boats).

You are right : it is no longer like a football match. You cannae touch anybody anymore at fitba. War :kick the bejesus out of everybody and you get a medal if ye win!

And the most cunning deception for a while , when did the Ministry of Defence come into being after changing it from Ministry of War??????? Ultimate Spin.

[Friend of Dorothy]

Oh dear, why do I waste my time? Bring on the main attraction, never had much time for stand up comics

[Bobbie En Tejas]

Ah but Bobbie - you have the right to bear arms so of course you could shoot them, and refering to your earlier point , if the market contained 100 men you would let them be????????

Hear, hear dottie's friend

Hadrian.. yes, I have a right to bear arms and don't. People in the UK don't have a right to bear arms and many do. But the point wasn't necessarily about "shooting" anyone, but killing someone who was going to take the lives of innocent people. I don't wish anyone to die, not male or female, young or old, iraqi or greatsatanian, not a suicide bomber with explosives strapped to his back or his potential victims, but there is no way I could sleep at night if I knew I stood by while a murderous person killed people and I did nothing. Hopefully this is only a matter of conversation and nothing that I will ever have to make a decision about.

I don't know how it is in the UK, but up until this war women weren't sent to combat. So, if a woman went in it was with the understanding that she most likely wasn't going to be put in the position of her life being put in jeopardy or her having to face the enemy.

Good for the female sailor that she might get out. I see they are allowing her to stay with the men. As you recall, when our American servicewoman was captured in Iraq, they kept her totally isolated from the men, who were allowed to remain together. Sexism in war is not always to the woman's benefit.

I see they are also using her to be the one who is reading letters admitting to wrongdoing. What a terrible position for her to have to be in.

[Hadrians hiring!]

Yeh, the letter looked slightly sus didnt it '' I have a present from the Iranian people for the birthday'' and phrases like that.

Damn, why didnae I think of ''great satanian'' - well done!

[ionnsaigh]

Friend Of Dorothy,
Any group contains, the secondary differences that you quote. Colour, language, politics, sexuality etc etc...
The differences are not what makes them the group. The group has a common feature or bond that reduces their differences to non antagonistic contradictions, no more no less. The point of the post was to seek out what is what.
Why turn to superstition by thanking God, that you can speak your mind ?. There is ample evidence that part of the current mess is due to delusional people in Iraq and Iran, and America, thanking God.
I think I can safely leave Iraq to the Iraqis, a consideration that others may well heed. As far as fighting the invaders is concerned I only have to sit at this desk, or step outside my own door to engage the enemy. An enemy who after all is said and done- has reduced a third of the people of Scotland to a life of strife, has forcibly used armed troops to suppress strike action in Glasgow, the tanks where here, with the guns aimed at the people.
So no I don't support British imperialism- wither it be in Iraq, or my beloved homeland Scotland. Can you honestly give me a reason as to why I should, only those heads that have been force fed an ample dose of obnoxious neoconservative brand of Calvinism would attempt to try.

Why make, the mistake of alluding to what is a remarkably stark conclusion, that not to support the Brit's, means that you support the other.
As far as Catalonia and Spain are concerned, there was a clearly defined division between Democracy and Fascism, for the likes of me, I have yet to define it in so clear cut terms as to the current slaughter in Iraq. Who the Democrat, who the Fascist. If it where, I would stand in the camp of the Democrat, and go to Iraq and fight the fight. As others have before me , and as surely as day passes to night, others after me.
You must have a sore wee bum sitting on the fence, just click your heels and think of reality.

[ionnsaigh]

As a human being I find it intolerable to see slaughter from whatever quarter, it casts a dark shadow on the development of our people, the human race.

Ionns, pull yourself together. Of course it is a horrible thing to take the spark of life from another human being, but I can tell you now, if I saw a suicide bomber on his way to a market where 100 women and children will potentially die with him, I'll shoot him myself. And if you wouldn't, then you would have the blood of 100 innocent people on your hands.

The suicide bomber would have the blood on their hands, ( well what's left of them). Would you shoot (HIM) in the head, in a vain attempt to erode those, endless sleepless nights, and angst filled days, that surely await those who's sense of conscience dictates. Say the bomber was your daughter or granddaughter would you pull the trigger?. Forget women and children , close your eyes, and pull or push. The master you served, used the same said logic over the skies of Japan. In order to save many, we will sacrifice one, about sums it up.

It is a logic that gives some form of pseudo moral legitimacy, one that coincidentally, clearly contradicts Christian teaching, if you happen to be that way inclined.
Let us take for example, the following scenario.
An American suicide bomber on their way into a market filled with 100 armed Arab freedom fighters, would you pull the trigger, to alleviate a perceived negative pang?.

[Bobbie En Tejas]

oh ho hum..

Is life that much of a dilemma to you that you would stand by and wring your hands about which you should protect? It doesn't take a whole lot of mental gymnastics to figure out some things...

By the way, another 100 were killed in market places yesterday.. coincidentally... after the example was posted. I bet there are 1000 people close to the victims and more who wish someone would have done the suiciden bomber in first.. Do I have more compassion for 100 dead and 1000+ mourning Iraqis than you do?

Yes, I would shoot the suicide bomber first if I had something at my disposal, and you can stand quivvering behind me in your dilemma trying to figure out what to do, and then you can go home smug that you had no blood on your hands and sleep peacefully, and I could go home knowing I saved 100 people.... I doubt I'd sleep well.

Bring it home to your world... if you were walking down a strange neighborhood and someone popped out of the darkness obviously prepared to kill your family, would you not protect them if you could? Of course you would. At all costs I bet... what if the person who popped out was your son?

I hate guns, I hate war, I hate bloodshed.. but I wouldn't stand by, no..

Sometimes I really wonder if this is a wind up

[jester and the fool]

ENCORE ENCORE!! BRAVO BRAVO BOBBIE

[ionnsaigh]

Tony Blair,
The blatantly uncompromising stance, adopted by you - our pink Prime Minister -only serves to add too, not only the misery of the captured military in Iran, it raises the prospects of war to a greater level. This is the man who took us to war in Iraq. The man who claims to support the freedoms, associated with Democracy.
You are a disgrace Blair, at least to the principles of Socialism that I and many others attempt to adhere.

As a worker you claim to have my best interest at heart, yet we share little in common. Nationality no- Class no-
Education no- Privilege no-Home Owner no- Wealth no. Alas the no outweighs the aye to such an extent , that your continuing leadership of Scotland under an English Crown, gives rise to calls for the people of Scotland to divorce a unfaithful whore of a partner Mother England.

As a worker I claim the right to have my say, for what it may be worth. We the people of Scotland demand peace in our time. We aspire to better understanding, to remove the man made poverty that blights our land. To claim our right to self determination. To raise awareness. To raise our collective identity language and culture to new levels.
Brit legacy shares with all imperial power a shameful history of exploitation, of other sovereign countries and their people's. A history that has never fitted comfortably with Celtic Society. Ask our Irish cousins. At least they should courage.
So Mr Blair I wish to file for divorce. On the grounds of desertion, cruelty, murder.

[Beachcomber]

Ye gods! You do talk a load of twaddle at times.

[Friend of Dorothy]

You must have a sore wee bum sitting on the fence, just click your heels and think of reality. [/quote]
On the contrary ionnsaigh, if one can be bothered getting ones bum to a polling station then one could hardly be considered as sitting on the fence. Meanwhile if one spends endless days scanning through a thesauras with the only purpose being to justify ones ramblings, then one is surely deluded. Also, you have proved once again your unwillingness to listen to others views by criticising me for using the word God and claiming it as superstition. Tell me please, how are you qualified to make such claims? [/quote]

[Beachcomber]

According to today's Independant it was a botched attempt by the US forces to kidnap a couple of visiting Iranian officials that triggered the siezure of the RN search team.

http://news.independent.co.uk/world/middle_east/article2414760.ece

[ionnsaigh]

Friend Of Dorothy,
If you consider getting of your bum once every Five years to vote- as being politically active, then so be it.

Superstition: irrational belief usually founded on ignorance or fear, and characterized by obsessive reverence for omens, charms,etc.
Supernatural: relating to things that cannot be explained according to natural law. or caused by a god, miraculous.

As to being qualified to make such claims, your the one who claims god, therefore the burden of proof rests with you, too attempt to substantiate such a bold occult based claim.
If the belief in god, is not a figment of superstition, then I beg the question what is.
Not one single shred of evidence exists, to back the claim. If I was inclined to belief in little green men who perform miracles, and have a set of rules that we must follow, in order that we may ,( after we die) enter the kingdom of Mars. Then you- and rightly so- challenge such, then I ask you in reply, are you qualified to dispute the existence of little green men. That is exactly the position you place yourself.

The history of gods goes back a long way- caveman attributed the things they couldn't understand to an omnipotent being, they saw shadows, fell to their knees and cried god. How many gods have we, as a race actually worshipped. One thing for sure the number is rapidly shrinking in direct contrast to knowledge gained through scientific discovery. Evolution and science has eroded the ignorance of people to such an extent that the primitive like god response , gives up valuable ground when juxtaposed to a true understanding of life.

Ramblings, unwillingness to listen to others, laziness, delusional, unqualified , endless days scanning thesaurus,
critical, so on and so on. Not exactly a balanced account is it.


[/b]

[ionnsaigh]

Ye gods! You do talk a load of twaddle at times.

Only one thing wrong with this post. gods

[Ross]

Ye gods! You do talk a load of twaddle at times.

Only one thing wrong with this post. gods

depends on what religion you belong to