Election 3rd May 2007

[John S]

Davie, I was at your door last week, you were oot. What I mean re the ferry is - the reason the Dalriada business action Group was formed 4 years ago to campaign for the ferry was the simple reason that our politicians were walking away.

DBAG did all the leg work to make the case for the ferry, with the business community, with the ferry companies, in Hollyrood, in Ballycastle, in Campbeltown often in the face of extreme scepticism. Part of the reason I am standing for council today is because of lessons I learned during that time about what can be done where there is the will. Sure everyone has done their bit to put the horse back in the stable, but helping keep the gate shut in the first place would have been more commendable.

[The Hitman]

Is it not the fact that the Dalriada Business Action Group had an alterior motive with a company aptly named Dalriada shipping wanting to tender for the ferry?

[John S]

Don't know where you picked that one up Hitman, DBAG have no interest in any ferry company, only interest in developing and using the route to the benefit of both communities either side.

Dalriada Shipping was Russ McLean's and nothing to do with DBAG

[The Hitman]

Well it's amazing what ye find out in Campbeltown.

So tell me, when did the ferry service restart due to DBAG? Or is the service not economically viable and the very establishment of such route between two small towns was a complete waste of time and not researched correctly?

[Sweltered]

Although I have always thiought the ferry was not viable, I understand why DBAG did what they did, and I don't think there was an ulterior motive. Why do you think there was? If nothing else, a ferry link MIGHT attract passing travellers heading for Ireland, god knows theres nothing for them to stop for. DBAG was very well intentioned, doing much of the work that should have been done by others. At least they tried. The area is going downhill fast, perhaps its time for a change.

I thought tories were in favour of developing business?

[The Hitman]

I'm just curious Sweltered, I assume from your reply that you were part of this group and you might be able to supply some information on the financial viabiltity of the service if all this work was carried out by DBAG?

I assume through freedom of information it would be quite easily to see what all work was carried out by
others.

May I also point out that for the ferry service to be established it obviously requires commitment from the Irish aswell.

[John S]

Hitman, I am no longer a member of DBAG, but I can tell you your intelligence sources are garbage, anyone who pays the least bit of attention to this thread or the issue of the ferry would know that Dalriada Shipping and DBAG two entirely different things. I'm surprised at you believing it, thought you had more sense.

The economic case has been trotted out on this forum umpteen times and I'm not going to start again, try this link for further information

http://www.dbag.org/

[The Hitman]

I was merely asking a question, no need to get all worked up over something that's not true then!

[Sweltered]

I have nothing to do with DBAG. I think the whole ferry thing was a white elephant, but I can appreciate what DBAG was trying to do. From what I've read, this group of people worked tirelessly to try to get something going to regenerate the area, certainly far more than those elected to do so. Hitman, you seem very interested in the proposed golf course, don't you think it would benefit from a ferry link? The golf-tourist market is huge, and Irelend is beating Scotland hands down. A ferry link could encourage those visiting Ireland, to scoot across for a round or two.

[The Hitman]

I am very interested in Campbeltown in general, not just the new Golf Course.

I am merely pointing out facts that I am aware of on that issue to try and enlighten folk who I often think crave for doom and gloom in order to have something to moan about.

Too much pessimism and not enough optimism in this town is a big problem in my opinion.

[LO]

More ferry detritus to clear up..... hope this isn't too long winded!

1.) Hitman - No connection between DBAG and Dalriada Shipping. The name was probably chosen by both parties to reflect the fact that the proposed ferry route was operating within the boundaries of the ancient Kingdom of Dalriada. Not much of a conspiracy there really....

2.) John S- I think this election has scrambled your brain. Dalriada Shipping is the name of the company owned jointly between James Robertson and his colleagues and Pentland Ferries and as far as I am aware has no connection with Mr MacLean.

3.) Hitman - You are partially correct with your assertion that no proper research had been done about the viability of the ferry. However this was nothing to do with DBAG (who came together later in frustration - see below). Rather it was down to political promises going back to the first Scottish elections in 1999. To be fair to all the politicians involved, they all stood on a promise of reinstating the ferry which was a popular policy at the time and I think that all sides were well intentioned and probably remain so. However, the legacy of the previous service was an unforeseen obstacle which was not factored into the equation and although the Executive went through the motions of calling for tenders etc., nothing was done to counteract the damage to the route's image caused by the cavalier antics of the Argyll and Antrim Steam Packet Company.

4.) Sweltered - You are correct when you say that DBAG ended up doing a lot of (unpaid) work that should have been the responsibility of others. Contrary to popular opinion, we did not decide one day that it would be "nice to have our wee ferry back" and we certainly didn't have any connections with the ferry industry or harbour any ambitions to operate a vessel either directly or indirectly. Quite simply, following a few months of informal discussions about why the ferry appeared to be dead in the water and the sharing of some anecdotal evidence from the previous operation, we decided to try and find out whether or not the ferry could be a runner. In the absence of any hard evidence from the expected public sector sources, we felt we had to try and establish the facts ourselves. At this stage, we took no particular side in the debate. Our attitude was that if we discovered the ferry was a dead duck then at least we would be able to confirm it and move on. By this time, there was a hardening of attitudes within the Civil Service that the ferry was indeed a dead duck and the advice to Ministers was to forget about the route. However, we started to ferret around anyway and started to find that everything wasn't quite doom and gloom. In fact using data from a number of official sources we managed to put together a coherent economic case for the route which at worst could wash its face and at best, given the correct marketing strategy could perhaps even make money in the medium to long term. We presented this report to the Transport Minister and other colleagues and have since been credited with making the economic case that prevented the project from being completely axed. Our research is not perfect but it is better than nothing at all which was the situation before DBAG's intervention.

Events since then have not exactly covered the Scottish and Westminster Governments in glory. The Executive fell down with the pantomime that was the tendering procedure and its ensuing fallout, but given what we have seen since with CalMac it would appear that this is probably down to incompetence rather than anything more sinister. Having finally attracted two companies to bid for the route in 2006 this was then scuppered by the size 12s of Peter Hain who pulled the NI share of the subsidy as part of his discredited attempts to play hard ball with the politicians in Northern Ireland. Indeed, our sources tell us that not only did he pull the £300K per annum from the route, he was also preparing to use it to help implement Westminster-imposed educational reforms with zero support in both communities in NI, which would have been a double whammy for them. Interestingly enough, Hain's actions bounced all parties in NI to publicly voice their commitment to the ferry service and if the Assembly goes ahead on May 9th the ferry may well be back on the agenda.

With regard to DBAG, our view is that the future (if any) lies in the collective hands of the NI politicians. If they want it they will get it and it is likely that the new Scottish Executive of whatever political hue, will bend over backwards to show they are doing their bit to promote further harmony over there. Interestingly, one of the many things we discovered in our research was the Causeway Coast and Glens of Antrim Tourist Masterplan which has been developed to reflect the fact that this area is NI's only World Heritage Site. It is ambitious and involves a Marketing Budget of £50m over the next ten years. Significantly, the first £10m was released days after Messrs Paisley and Adams sat down together a few weeks ago. Encouragingly, the ferry from Kintyre has been identified as a small but integral part of this Masterplan . Anyone wishing to read this document for themselves can find a link at http://www.detini.gov.uk/cgi-bin/downutildoc?id=475 although it may take some time as it weighs in at 118 pages.

One other point just for the sake of clarification regarding John Semple and his involvement with DBAG. John acted as a very effective Secretary of DBAG until his decision to stand as a Councillor at the forthcoming elections. As previously indicated, DBAG is a non-political grouping, drawing support from across the spectrum and we have always been prepared to engage with politicians of any hue who bring something to the debate. Thus, laterally it became impossible for John to act apolitically on behalf of DBAG whilst pursuing a party political goal elsewhere. Thus, he resigned from the group last autumn and has had no further involvement with us since then.

Anyway, that's me done - I hope that this post allays Hitman's fears that DBAG is part of some kind of weird conspiracy and also that we are not some kind of Kintyre branch of the Flat Earth Society a view which seems to be implied from time to time on here. I won't hold my breath though ......

[LO]

I'm just curious Sweltered, I assume from your reply that you were part of this group and you might be able to supply some information on the financial viabiltity of the service if all this work was carried out by DBAG?

I assume through freedom of information it would be quite easily to see what all work was carried out by
others.

May I also point out that for the ferry service to be established it obviously requires commitment from the Irish aswell.

Hitman

I think you would probably be wasting your time going down the Freedom of Information route to be honest.
However, DBAG have always had a policy of transparently sharing our data with interested parties and you are welcome to see it as much as anyone else. If you are interested,there is one slight practical problem to overcome arising from your anonymity as it would be difficult to hand it over to you, but if it helps, we would be quite happy to sign a confidentiality agreement to ensure your identity remains secret.

Re: your last point I couldn't agree more!

[general jack o'niell]

who cares, he has already had my vote, posted this morning

[JEM]

Very well explained, LO. Thank you.

[weetoon]

Aye, Its not just time, its about time. For too long our local representatives have been ignored by Kilmory, John is just the man to knock heads together & put Campbeltown's interests back to the fore.
SNP Salmond for First Minister, SNP Mather for Argyll & Bute, SNP Semple for Campbeltown.