Poverty research needs you!

[Louise Dobbie]

Hello!

Glasgow Caledonian University are conducting research on the way the media shapes our understanding of poverty. The work is being funded by the Joseph Rowntree Foundation http://www.jrf.org.uk/ .


As part of the research we are holding small, informal discussion groups at the White Hart Hotel on:
Wednesday 10th October at 2pm
Thursday 11th October at 1:30pm

We need participants!!!! Please come along to the hotel if you would like to take part in the research. The groups should last for 90mins and we will give you £20 as a token of thanks, and to ensure your travel costs are covered.

For more information please contact Louise on 0141 331 3765.

hope to hear from you,
Louise Dobbie (researcher co-ordinator)

[ionnsaigh]

Louise Dobbie,

I personally would love to take part in this research, unfortunately living in Glasgow - with domestic commitments that restrict my freedom of movement. Your post got me thinking however.
Judging by the response of some posters - too my own pleas - regarding the plight of poor people in Scotland.
The media rarely openly examine the issue. Admittedly you get the odd report regarding health and mortality rates- then nothing. Well not exactly I would imagine that the reporting of crime is pretty much standard.
The link between crime and poverty - for that matter most of societies ills - is rarely - if never - discussed.
Poverty has always been my main bone of contention with this life. When I dare mention the subject on this forum the response at times can be quite hostile. A response that has two major types of opinion. One that poverty does not exist - or that it is the fault of the poor.

In my opinion those who control the media -clearly acting in their best interests manipulate fear and hate towards the poor. The Working Class Junkie type of figure portrayed does nothing - other than distort the picture by adding yet another hate type figure to the growing list - as opposed to the investigation as to causes of poverty.

I hope your study goes well . I was wondering if you could post your findings gathered from the White Hart. It would be very interesting to view the feedback.
I feel that part of your problem in obtaining reliable data is the stigma that goes with the package. I hated going to school in tattered clothing and holes in my shoes -or queuing up in class for my free dinner ticket.
People generally will attempt to hide poverty - particularly within a affluent society.
Nevertheless it gives me encouragement to know - that organisations such as the Rowntree Foundation exists.
Good luck.

[Louise Dobbie]

Ionnsaigh,

Many thanks for your support of our work! I think you have picked up on a number of issues that are already beginning to emerge from our research- particularly in relation to the contstruction and level of reporting of poverty.

The JRF are a brilliant organisation. Also, they ensure that the findings of the research they fund are freely available. You will be able to access the findings from our research their web-site once the work is complete. I would expect this to be around February 2008.

We have managed to generate some interest in the discussion groups in Campbeltown and thanks to the help of local residents and organisations, we now have a good number of participants - and I'm sure the groups will go really well.

We'll be also holding focus groups in Glasgow. It woudl be great if you were able to take part. If you would like more information about them - please call or email: 0141 331 3765 /ldo@gcal.ac.uk,

all best wishes, Louise Dobbie

[Sweltered]

There's an idea over here that is gathering momentum...those on welfare must pass a drugs test before getting their check, unless they agree to get help.

I had to pass a drug test to get a job to pay tax, to pay for welfare. Why shouldn't people on welfare be judged by the same rules ?

Now is this research being conducted to find an answer, or is it being conducted to prove a point?

[general jack o'niell]

the third option i think?

to justify its existance!!! and pander to the "poor me" sector of society, what percentage of the £20 sweetners will get spent on fags and drink?

a cynical viewpoint you may think, but nonetheless accurate, we've alll seen the same faces appearing in the local press over and over again, i've said it before if living below the level of the average national wage is poverty, then that accounts for at least 75% of the working population of the town, and i don't think you'll see many of them turning up with their hand out for £20, only the fourth generation scroungers and detritous thats blown into the town in recent years, outcasts from the schemes of several major cities.

what do they look for in these drug tests? would i need to bring my prescriptions along?

see they jellies man, pure gallus so theys ur

[Bobbie En Tejas]

Ionns, just as it is a blanket statement to say poverty is the fault of the poor, it is also a blanket statement to say that it isn't.

I can't speak for poverty in Scotland or other first world countries outside of the US, as opportunities and rights may be different there, but in the US, in most places if the child is living in poverty, take a good look at the parents.

[mrn]

I can't speak for poverty in Scotland or other first world countries outside of the US, as opportunities and rights may be different there, but in the US, in most places if the child is living in poverty, take a good look at the parents.

Hi Bobbie,

Why comment then? If it is about Scotland? Same with Swelterd?

I find your statement very sweeping - I grew up in a very poor part of town to parents who had very little but would I ever blame them? NO! These are circumstances.

If I were to take a good look (which I wish I could) I would see love and alot of happiness. They did everything they could in their lifetime. Both worked, had a family of 6 but we were poor. To blame them is simply ludicrous.

Please don't let this evolve into a ding dong - had too many in my youth!

[Sweltered]

Does it matter where it is?

[general jack o'niell]

no it doesn't,

[mrn]

Does it matter where it is?

Yes

Without drifting from the subject I have to wonder why a man who left Kintyre spends so much time commenting on an area they clearly left behind.

[Bobbie En Tejas]

I can't speak for poverty in Scotland or other first world countries outside of the US, as opportunities and rights may be different there, but in the US, in most places if the child is living in poverty, take a good look at the parents.

Hi Bobbie,

Why comment then? If it is about Scotland? Same with Swelterd?

I find your statement very sweeping - I grew up in a very poor part of town to parents who had very little but would I ever blame them? NO! These are circumstances.

If I were to take a good look (which I wish I could) I would see love and alot of happiness. They did everything they could in their lifetime. Both worked, had a family of 6 but we were poor. To blame them is simply ludicrous.

Please don't let this evolve into a ding dong - had too many in my youth!

I didn't blame your parents. I said, "Ionns, just as it is a blanket statement to say poverty is the fault of the poor, it is also a blanket statement to say that it isn't."

To blame society for every poor family, and to blame every poor man for his own poverty is wrong in either case. Take a good look at the parents, and if they are hardworking and proud and doing the best they can, then it is obviously something outside themselves keeping them in that situation. But are most poverty stricken families in first world countries run by sober hardworking people? I don't think so.

Maybe I take the "land of opportunity" for granted.

As for me commenting, it seemed like it was a discussion about poverty in general.

[mrn]

I can't speak for poverty in Scotland or other first world countries outside of the US, as opportunities and rights may be different there, but in the US, in most places if the child is living in poverty, take a good look at the parents.

Hi Bobbie,

Why comment then? If it is about Scotland? Same with Swelterd?

I find your statement very sweeping - I grew up in a very poor part of town to parents who had very little but would I ever blame them? NO! These are circumstances.

If I were to take a good look (which I wish I could) I would see love and alot of happiness. They did everything they could in their lifetime. Both worked, had a family of 6 but we were poor. To blame them is simply ludicrous.

Please don't let this evolve into a ding dong - had too many in my youth!

I didn't blame your parents. I said, "Ionns, just as it is a blanket statement to say poverty is the fault of the poor, it is also a blanket statement to say that it isn't."

To blame society for every poor family, and to blame every poor man for his own poverty is wrong in either case. Take a good look at the parents, and if they are hardworking and proud and doing the best they can, then it is obviously something outside themselves keeping them in that situation. But are most poverty stricken families in first world countries run by sober hardworking people? I don't think so.

Maybe I take the "land of opportunity" for granted.

As for me commenting, it seemed like it was a discussion about poverty in general.

Just shows you how easy it is to mis-read someones comments Sorry

I said to myself months ago I would only read this forum! Opps now I know why!

[Bobbie En Tejas]

Just shows you how easy it is to mis-read someones comments Sorry

I said to myself months ago I would only read this forum! Opps now I know why!

mrn, sometimes we all misread something or disagree with what is written. What you have to say is valid. Please don't stop posting. Its these kinds of things that make for interesting discussion.

[Sweltered]

Does it matter where it is?

Yes

Without drifting from the subject I have to wonder why a man who left Kintyre spends so much time commenting on an area they clearly left behind.

So, are you saying that disagree with this idea, if it were to be set up in Scotland, but not if it were set up in the USA?

[ionnsaigh]

Ionns, just as it is a blanket statement to say poverty is the fault of the poor, it is also a blanket statement to say that it isn't.

I can't speak for poverty in Scotland or other first world countries outside of the US, as opportunities and rights may be different there, but in the US, in most places if the child is living in poverty, take a good look at the parents.

Chances are extremely high - that if you look at the parents - then they will be poor people too. Then again look at a middle class kids parents - surprise surprise middle class. Upper class kid upper class parent.
We as a society accept unquestionably the transfer of inherited wealth, children born into a middle class background will receive the wealth of the parents - when the parents die. In many ways these kids have a distinct advantage over those born poor - chiefly the collective lifetime wealth of their parents. The existence of Three main classes proves the point. I personally received nothing but grief when my Dad died. Nothing to pass on - hey though what's new - he received nothing from his dead Dad - so on and so on - I come from a poor family.
Poverty as wealth - is an inherited condition - why baulk at the prospect that takes blame firmly out of the equation. You cant blame your father or mother - for the colour of your eyes.
The values your class embrace collectively be they - low middle high - are distinct to that particular class.
The battle cry of the more progressive elements of the middle class is opportunity and rights. They perceive society to be in some way fair - full of opportunity . By implication the poor who have obviously failed to grasp these mantels are at fault.
It is extremely difficult to explain experience - one has to experience experience. You can tell a child till your blue in the face - not to put their finger on the fire - as it burns. The child who burned their finger understands more than the child who hasn't.
The greatest artists - would paint an apple to visual perfection - however if negative circumstances prevailed - and they failed to taste the fruit - then in essence they have limited understanding -through sheer lack of experience.
As far as the structure of the Three main economic classes are concerned , one has to question the urban myth that their is freedom of movement between the classes. This is the lie that we take as truth - Orwellian by nature. What you have is movement within each sub class - no more no less. Each class has three main distinctions of wealth. The working class - class ranges from those who enjoy the benefits of their labours to those that Marx described as the lumpen proletariat. Some movement between these sub classes exists - however movement between the main sections rarely occurs - at least not without some form of catalyst .
I cant help thinking that some of the posts - are clearly influenced by a ruthless streak of puritan Calvinism - that took such a firm hold in the west. Have I been labouring under delusion - that human compassion for justice - would include the liberation from a life of strife and want ?.Wake up hear the cries of the poor.