Brothers And Sisters Of The Red Death

[A Horse called Juan Face]

wasn't argueing with your information, just the concept that total non believers can be labelled as being associated with anything to do with religion or anti religion, thats the whole point, if you don't believe then you are a non believer or a saneist, not a satanist, i just think that anyone who believes in the existance of a higher power, no matter what that might mean to them, is a bit touched in the head and i mean everybody, don't think i can't get this kind of discussion closer to home

In that case i apologise for being curt. As i said i dont agree with the premise either. Chelsea is the devil right enough

[general jack o'niell]

you had to spoil it, being so self centred i didn't care enough to ask who he was, you just had to tell us anyway!!!

so if i can find one other who thinks as i do and we meet from time to time then we are a religion? we could take turn about being the deity, i could borrow a pointy hat from the pope, i'm sure he lives round the corner from me.

i'm annoyed my hoose doesn't look better from closer than 100ft up, vast improvement on before but see when i get this levitating thing cracked, there'll be no stopping me, you should see how much time being able to walk on water cuts off the shortcut across the field on the way to the town centre,

[A Horse called Juan Face]

so if i can find one other who thinks as i do and we meet from time to time then we are a religion? we could take turn about being the deity, i could borrow a pointy hat from the pope, i'm sure he lives round the corner from me.
,

well isnt that what all religion is, people that share a belief together, even if the belief is nothing?
Doesnt really matter anyway, i only mentioned it for something to do. I is sure your house is a spectacular sight

[general jack o'niell]

"i is sure"? whats with the patois? you going all voodoo on me now?

nevermind the religion, see the person that posted the update on google earth? i'm going to skelp them, i've spent an hour trying to add a pic of tangy beach to it, i first had to steal the pic from sweltered's bebo page, of course him being so insecure he had altered it so that he was standing next to the "bairn" swapping me for himself, the end result is ok till you look at it closely and notice i have three arms!!!!

my attempts failed, so he will have to add it for me, whats that got to do with religion? well its just where our family has worshipped the sun for the last 70 odd years, its the only thing i'd buy if ihad the wherewithall, no fancy doo da's to worship at the alter of the PS3 or Xbox, no big fancy hoose, just tangy beach, stick a wee chalet on it to store all the tons of equipment we take with us and leave it as it is, maybe a chairlift to get me up and down, tho my great aunt never had any bother when we were kids.

heaven on earth if there is such a place, tho the surprising thing is that on the day that google updated the detail theres not a soul on the beach, not a single shaw or houston or roachford in sight? weird!!!!

[ionnsaigh]

Hi horse, If I could take you up on your narrow assertion - that Atheism is anti religion. Atheism for me - means so much more than anti this - or anti that. Atheism embraces scientific investigation - cold hard fact - as opposed to the rantings of priests and popes. I as an Atheist - would argue that the identification of universal laws are fundamental in determining - fact or truth. My use of the term law includes the contradicting nature of all things - in the course of their development. For example take the contradiction of wood - a table is hard enough to hold weight - yet soft enough to cut. Everything known to us holds this contradiction in common - all things - that is how I would interpret - universal law. If a contradiction is found - in other words - if you can point to anything that dose not contain contradiction - then my analysis would prove wrong.
Atheism is pro fact - if that makes it anti religion then so be it. Supernaturalism has as it's bed partner Naturalism - each are two aspects of the same thing. Each have a joint impact on the other - you increase one - you decrease the other. That is a scientific fact . The contradiction between both is antagonistic to both. The antagonistic contradiction between wealth and poverty has identical features. An Atheist would undoubtedly - in the final analysis - wish to render all antagonistic contradictions to a new level. One that would remove the savagery of inequality - in the distribution of wealth - and all the nasty wars that go with it.

Their is no antagonistic contradiction between Atheism and Communism. Dialectical Materialism remains the sole
scientific study method of Atheists. All things change in terms of qualitative difference - by the contradictions inherent in their progress from one qualitative thing to another. Internal external are polar features - the external aspect is quantitative - in that by increasing or removing - we can change any given thing qualitatively.
Take water and temperature - one internal and one external. Apply by quantity - temperature - then a qualitative change takes place- be it either ice or steam.
Atheism has at it's disposal - the wealth of history stretching far back - to certain schools of Greek Philosophical Thought. Experience of external influence - are of the first - and foremost consideration - of who we are - and what we will become. Take two genetically identical plants - give one all - that it needs to flourish - deny the other adequate needs . One will reach it's full inherent potential - the others poverty will manifest itself.

[general jack o'niell]

see what you started? hope your happy now and he never mentioned tangy once!!!!

[A Horse called Juan Face]

Ok, I understand what youre saying. I dont understand what its got to do with anything. I saw the Matrix Reloaded as well so.....HO HUM

Anyway, Atheism is short for antitheism. Theism means religious belief (ie monotheism, belief in only one god). How the hell can you say that atheism isnt anti-religion when its a direct translation. This folly renders all your other points insignificant. But i have time to play so, anyway if there is a God then he invented science Humans certainly didnt invent it, they FOUND it. Considering the bible infers that this life is a test wrought with many obstacles to entering heaven, wouldnt it therefore be plausible that god invented them, to test the worthiness of souls. Believe what you want, but theologians can point to gods will as a reason for anything. And before someone says dinosaurs, who says that the seven celestial days God took to make earth are the same length as the days in the gregorian calendar.

I don't understand why the two have to be so diammetrically opposed? Used in the right way science can explain God's law and vice versa, as intended by Sir Isaac Newton (a christian, and no he wasnt the grand master of the priory of sion).And why would you say that because science says something is impossible that makes it so? That is the meaning of the word miracle. Science is as fallible as the man investigating it, scientists once said the earth was flat.

If i point a gun in your face what is the first thing you say?
"oh god, dont shoot!"
Why?

PS i dont even go to church, im hungover on a sunday. I have many problems with organised religion too, far, far too many to go into on here.

OH AND STOP PUTTING AN - IN THE MOST RIDICULOUS PLACES POSSIBLE. NO WONDER PEOPLE CANT UNDERSTAND YOU. SCIENCE OBVIOUSLY TAUGHT YOU ENGLISH TOO. (this last part was a joke. You are its butt)

[Bobbie En Tejas]

Good post, horse.

As for Ionn's post, there are many communists who are atheists, but there are a whole lot of atheists who are not communists.

You say: "Atheists are pro fact." I know a few atheists, as well as non-atheists who wouldn't know a fact if their two brain cells collided and actually formed a thought and believe what they believe based on little. So, your statement that "atheists are pro fact" is based on no fact whatsoever.

"Atheism embraces scientific investigation." Any thinking person embraces scientific investigation. Truth is truth, and I don't want anyone's favorite theory obscuring the truth. The truth doesn't have to have anyone covering it up or fraudulant evidence promulgated, on either side, and yet both atheist and nonatheist scientists, philosophers, politicians, religious people and sundry others who had their own agendas have been guilty of that.

I am thinking that you are so immersed in a man's idea and philosophy that you don't have much room in your thinking to even consider a scientific fact that could some day come along and go against what you want to believe.

[ionnsaigh]

Read the post again bobbie, I will refer to your last paragraph first. " I am thinking " so on and so on.
I stand accused of naked intransigence - blind dogmatic -unwilling or unable to except scientific fact.
It is fairly self evident - from my post - that your point is completely irrelevant - and therefore unjustified.

" Any thinking person embraces scientific investigation " . My definition of embrace would include - acceptance and subsequent practice, as any thinking person would . Can you honestly say - hand on heart - That those who continue to ignore scientific fact - chiefly religious institutions - that they - belong in the same category. All history provides even the most sceptical reader - with ample evidence of rejection and reaction . Charles Darwin proves the point. " Truth is truth " The term truth is in itself subjective . A term used frequently by the forces of reaction.
As I pointed to in my previous post - cold hard facts are cold hard facts - the truth remains a subjective term - solely particular to the individual concerned. Laws that are universal in nature - are fact.

You know Atheists and anti-atheists " who wouldn't know a fact " - what a coincidence.
That is not really the point is it. Atheism stands or falls - on the very foundation of established scientific fact .

I will now attempt to answer your first point " a whole lot of atheists who are not communists ". An antagonistic contradiction exists - between a venture capitalist - so called atheist - whereas no such contradiction exists between a communism and atheism. In many ways communism fills in the gap - or in other words - substitutes religion with moral philosophy.

[hugh]

What exactly would the "antagonistic contradiction" between venture capitalism and atheism be?

At what point in your argument did Bobbie's "any thinking person" metamorphose into "chiefly religious institutions"?

[A Horse called Juan Face]

i see you ignored the fact that atheism actually means anti religion again.

Can you explain to me why youve broken this sentence up?

chiefly religious institutions - that they - belong in the same category

Why does that sentence need the two hyphons?

Pretty sure Im not the only one that is confused as to why Atheism and communism are now bedfellows?
I think you might have been the pseudo-intellectual jock was referring too. I think youve been reading too much Chairman Mao

[ionnsaigh]

hugh, My Atheism is so much more than the sum implied by the religious use of the term atheist. In total my whole existence can't be based on something - I don't except in the first place. I don't believe in the concept of devils and angels - however I would vigorously desist from being labelled antiangel or antidevil.
The antagonistic contradiction between an atheist capitalist - and atheist communist are in themselves self evident.
The former creates economic division - the later renders it to a non antagonistic contradiction - that through progress - will perish and die.

The " any thinking person point " I used the general term in order to attempt to qualify - a greater understanding and hopefully bring the debate - into some form of general perspective. Who knows perhaps I'm being to kind - to include the belief in Supernaturalism - within the criteria of any thinking person.

[ionnsaigh]

i see you ignored the fact that atheism actually means anti religion again.

Can you explain to me why youve broken this sentence up?

chiefly religious institutions - that they - belong in the same category

Why does that sentence need the two hyphons?

Pretty sure Im not the only one that is confused as to why Atheism and communism are now bedfellows?
I think you might have been the pseudo-intellectual jock was referring too. I think youve been reading too much Chairman Mao

Pretty sure Jock can talk for himself - or do you often put words in other peoples mouths ?.
The reason that I break up sentences - is none of your business -however - I'm sure some educationally aware readers - will have figured it out.
I have no wish to repeat myself- so you take your time - and read my post to bobbie - carefully.
Happy - New Year - Horse

[A Horse called Juan Face]

Any educationally aware readers will be aware that the correct tool for breaking up sentences is a comma.

The incorrect tool is ionnsaigh

couldnt resist that one, and i didnt put any words in anyones mouth. I just stated my opinion on something mentioned on a previous post. You dont do yourself many favours, sir, especially with your refusal to accept that atheism is not a sociological stance. It means anti-religion therefore that is all that it encompasses, antagonistic or not.

The thing is though, for such a staunch advocate of communism, you seem to have missed the fact that it is based, either directly or indirectly, on church teachings. Love thy neighbour, all men are created equal, etc. Infact ive heard it said that jesus was the first communist.

So nuts to you, because your existence can, and most likely is, based on at least one thing that you wont accept.
Someones has got to be, why not you?

[hugh]

Ionns.

Still a bit confused here. I have heard that communism and capitalism are differing ideologies (read it somewhere, I think?), but I thought
you were implying that "venture capitalists" couldn't be atheists. That's why I asked that question. Maybe it's just me. I don't find the hyphens
that annoying, but the bits in between them confuse the hell out of me.

If you take "any thinking person" and generalise them into a faction or group, aren't you just doing what blind, non-thinking religious zealots
have been doing for millenia? "In a soldier's stance I aimed my hand at the mongrel dogs who teach/ fearing not I'd become my enemy in the
instant that I preach" as Porter Wagoner said in a song called "Joyless Euphoria". Or maybe not.