Uniforms

[spangles]

- at least in terms of hygiene.

............and safety.

http://www.peterboroughtoday.co.uk/news ... 3850385.jp

S

[Ross]

Ross - their daily business is in the theatre of war - not Bradford or Campbeltown

Yes that can be part of their job, when required to do so by the government. As is humanitarian aid to disaster areas, airsea rescue to climbers and sailors, raising countless thousands of pound for charities around the uk and the rest of the world to name just a few of the other things that they get up to when you can open your eyes to the big picture and not be blinded by political retoric.

Anyhow sure that will do for me, as i feel i have made my point and dont really feel like getting into a long and drawn out debate over the matter. TTFN.

[ionnsaigh]

Ross
The wars in Iraq and Afghanistan where deeply unpopular. Martins post re scum hit a raw nerve. As I opposed both wars. The conflict in Iraq is illegal - how many more young men and women from Scotland - and the other countries - have to die or be seriously injured - before our voices are heard. Most end up in the army - because there is little or no opportunity - to find reasonable jobs in Scotland. If you serve the forces of the crown - and are wounded - do you think that the authorities take good care of you ?. My sons partner works with injured ex-service men and women. Erskine a charity - why because this and past governments - have a shocking record looking after our brave young people. The pride that Martin feels for his Britain is exaggerated - it leaves little in the way of any democratic dissent -other than being branded a traitor - who should be put up against a wall and shot. I used the fictitious Irish scenario - only to make a point - that not everyone shares his right wing views.
If you are in the forces ( Navy ) then try and come home safe. My sons best pal was in the navy - he is Indian brought up here in Glasgow and a nice guy - went to his wedding - my first Hindu wedding. Anyway he ended up in Iraq at the time of the invasion. He and his mate carried a dead American soldier through the night. His combat uniform had changed colour over night. The uniform was completely covered in dried blood. frick war. You come home safe son. Gt. Britain isnae worth one ounce of your blood.

[Ross]

My sons partner works with injured ex-service men and women. Erskine a charity - why because this and past governments - have a shocking record looking after our brave young people.

Couldnt agree more with you on this one, they do a lot of great work up at Erskine. Hopefully with the amount of publicity being generated at the moment service personnel with physical and physcological injuries will be better looked after in the future.

[Machrihanish]

just catching up on posts and read this one.
As an ex-serviceman I can understand a lot of the feelings posted on here.
One thing everyone should remember is that when you take the Queen's Shilling you know what you are getting into, the thing you don't expect (I certainly didn't) is the abuse you get when you come back from doing your bit for Queen & country. At the end of the day you are fighting for yourself and the man next to you, not a queen, country, flag or politician !
Kipling (as someone else pointed out earlier) hit the nail right on the head with his tale of Tommy.

[petewick]

Not familiar with Kiplings Tommy, but the same man actively
encouraged his son to join up in WW 1, and lived out the rest of
his days in bitter regret when his son was killed.
Have every respect for our navy, army and airforce personel, what I hate
is those elected w*nkers who supposedly govern counries but continue to incite wars
to satisfy their own thirst for conquest.

[Machrihanish]

He did indeed Petewick, his poem is still appropriate though.
Here it is for any who didn't know it:

I went into a public- 'ouse to get a pint o' beer,
The publican 'e up an sez, "We serve no red-coats here."
The girls behind the bar they laughed an' giggled fit to die,
I outs into the street again an' to myself sez I:

O it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "Tommy go away";
But it's "Thank you, Mister Atkins," when the band begins to play-
The band begins to play, my boys, the band begins to play,
O it's "Thank you Mr Atkins," when the band begins to play.

I went into a theatre as sober as could be,
They gave a drunk civilian room, but 'adn't none for me;
They sent me to the gallery or round the music-'alls,
But when it comes to fighting', Lord! They'll shove me in the stalls!

For it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "Tommy wait outside";
But it's "Special train for Atkins," when the trooper's on the tide-
The troopship's on the tide, my boys, the troopship's on the tide,
O it's "Special train for Atkins," when the trooper's on the tide.

Yes, makin' mock o' uniforms that guard you while you sleep
Is cheaper than them uniforms, an' they're starvation cheap;
An' hustlin' drunken soldiers when they're goin' large a bit
Is five times better business than paradin' in full kit.

Then it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "Tommy 'ow's yer soul?"
But it's "Thin red line of 'eroes" when the drums begin to roll-
The drums begin to roll, my boys, the drums begin to roll,
O it's " Thin red line of 'eroes," when the drums begin to roll.

We aren't no thin red 'eroes, nor we aren't no blackguards too,
But single men in barricks, most remarkable like you;
An' if sometimes our conduck isn't all your fancy paints,
Why single men in barricks don't grow into plaster saints;

While it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "Tommy fall be'ind,"
But it's "Please to walk in front, sir," when there's trouble in the wind-
There's trouble in the wind, my boys, there's trouble in the wind,
O it's "Please to walk in front, sir," when there's trouble in the wind.

You talk o' better food for us, an' schools, an' fires, an' all:
We'll wait for extry rations if you treat us rational.
Don't mess about the cook-room slops, but prove it to our face
The Widow's Uniform is not the soldier-man's disgrace.

For it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "Chuck 'im out, the brute!"
But it's "Saviour of 'is country" when the guns begin to shoot;
An' it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' anything you please;
An' Tommy ain't a bloomin' fool - you bet that Tommy sees!

Notes:

It was the Duke of Wellington who coined the popular nickname Thomas (or Tommy) Atkins, for the ordinary soldier. In 1843, whilst Commander-in-Chief, he was asked to come up with a 'typical' soldier's name. Thinking back to his first campaign in the Low Countries in the 1790s he remembered a badly wounded, but stoical, soldier he had encountered - Thomas Atkins.

The Widow's Uniform - after Prince Albert's death, Queen Victoria was known as the Widow at Windsor and soldiers were known as the Widow's Sons who wore the Widow's uniform.

[bill]

For Rudyard Kipling, the most famous author of the age, the carnage at Loos on the Western Front in September 1915 plunged him into inner darkness. His only son, John, for whom he had written his best-loved poem, If, had been killed in the action just six weeks after his 18th birthday.

John had been desperate to join up, and even before the war, the military had been his longed-for destiny. While Rudyard might have chosen the Navy, young John wanted to be a soldier. But his eyesight, like his father's, was appalling. His was so poor that he was unable to read the second letter on the chart, despite his thick glasses.

It was time to pull some strings. His father was at the height of his celebrity. The world's youngest Nobel literary laureate, his was the authentic voice of empire, whose work beat the drum for the jingoistic spirit of the times.

He was never able to write directly about John's loss. My Boy Jack is about a sailor - but still a thinly disguised poem about regret and mourning. Shadows of guilt have also been detected in his later work. "If any question why we died/ Tell them, because our fathers lied" is thought to refer to his role in helping his son to bypass the military eyesight rules.

Rudyard Kipling lived until January 1936. But father and son live on in the nation's consciousness. If remains Britain's favourite poem.



My Boy Jack (1916)

Have you news of my boy Jack?'
Not this tide.
'When d'you think that he'll come back?'
Not with this wind blowing, and this tide.

'Has any one else had word of him?'
Not this tide.
For what is sunk will hardly swim,
Not with this wind blowing, and this tide.

'Oh, dear, what comfort can I find?'
None this tide,
Nor any tide,
Except he did not shame his kind -
Not even with that wind blowing, and that tide.

Then hold your head up all the more,
This tide,
And every tide;
Because he was the son you bore,
And gave to that wind blowing and that tide!

[Machrihanish]

quite enjoyed the tv drama based on that Bill.

[bill]

quite enjoyed the tv drama based on that Bill.

Was that the one with David Jason ?

[Machrihanish]

the one with 'Harry Potter' playing Jack
http://www.itv.com/Drama/perioddrama/MyBoyJack/Aboutthedrama/default.html

[petewick]

Thanks for that info fellas, I was ironically watching The Man Who Would be King the other night.