Kintyre Vernacular

[hugh]

absolutely. And i'll probably get slaughtrered from both sides for coming in here, but I don't care. (I'm far enough away to live with it ).
There's a wee "linger" on the main vowel in the Carradale version that just doesn't come across on the printed page, but when you know it you'll
recognise it anywhere.

[spangles]

born in and brought up in campbeltown

Jeest like myself.

There's a wee "linger" on the main vowel in the Carradale version that just doesn't come across on the printed page,

Quite right Hugh. While the emphasis on both the Carradale and Campbeltown "eleeven" is on the second syllable. In Campbeltown the "ee" is as in "lee" and in the dale one it is as in "let" but both emphasise the second syllable. The carradale one is more like the dookers way of saying it.
S

[general jack o'niell]

just checkin to see if my laptop has stopped writing in invisible font, apparently the second half of my previous post didn't show up, i could read it but it seems others couldn't? and it was such a nice thread too, eether that or theres an echo in here? oh dear i've got my socks on the wrong feet again

[EMDEE]

I think the point brought out by these recent posts is that the East Kintyre dialect is quite distinct from the Campbeltown dialect, and this just goes to show how localised accents can be.

To my ear it has a more “West Highland” sound; even more so than other areas further north and west in Argyll. It is more akin to some of the island accents.

Any Carradale forum members know the history of how this accent came about or any theories?

[general jack o'niell]

exactly it has more in common with some parts of the western isles than it does anywhere more local, likewise tarbert whereas ardrishaig, lochgilphead and inverary have more in common with a glasgow accent, which part i couldn't say as it differs from place to place, the further west you get the more nasal it sounds to my ears, a clydebank accent being positively whining to my ears, yet distinct from a drumbchapel accent. i expect i'm probably wrong about that as well, an irvine accent is positively east end and nothing like an ayrshire accent but head inland towards cumnock and a drongan accent is more uninteligable than the broadest peterhead, i was in a takeaway in drongan once and the man in front ordered chupnsaas, a weird eastern delicacy i thought.

[EMDEE]

Even within the Western Isles which is a very isolated community, each island has its own accent, The Lewis/Stornoway accent being different from the Harris accent, although geographically they are one island. The other southern islands are just as distinct, and are almost as different from each other as they all are from the Campbeltown accent.

[jdcarra]

born in and brought up in campbeltown

Jeest like myself.

There's a wee "linger" on the main vowel in the Carradale version that just doesn't come across on the printed page,

Quite right Hugh. While the emphasis on both the Carradale and Campbeltown "eleeven" is on the second syllable. In Campbeltown the "ee" is as in "lee" and in the dale one it is as in "let" but both emphasise the second syllable. The carradale one is more like the dookers way of saying it.
S

Am getting a wee bit with ah these ee's and lee's.

Cannae answer EMDEE's question as I'll be in between them both being Campbeltonian and Carrodalion .

[witchnettle]

back to boose, - i know someone from berwick and he uses boose as in "well boose you" if you don't want to do what he wants to do.

Press in my family was used for any cupboard in the house, so it was always a lottery when you were ordered to get something from the press as to which one is was in. But being a female i looked diligently through it til i found what was needed.
x

[general jack o'niell]

at the risk of censure and just for comedic effect i write the following

witchnettle, being female would it not have been your job to put whatever it is that was needed from the press there in the first place? hence you would know where to find it, whatever "it" might be?

[witchnettle]

lordy lordy general you like to live life on the edge ...........
sadly there is a point in life when a woman realises if she wants a job done properly then she needs to do it herself !!!!
lol x

[ionnsaigh]

lordy lordy general you like to live life on the edge ...........
sadly there is a point in life when a woman realises if she wants a job done properly then she needs to do it herself !!!!
lol x

noo If a said that aboot a wummin - a wid be braded a sexist pig.

[EMDEE]

The thread seems to have wandered onto awkward territory. I think in most houses it is the woman who knows where everything is irrespective of who put it there.

In an attempt to return to the subject, another feature of Kintyre vernacular is the dropping of the “Mac” in surnames. I have never heard this being done in any other part of Scotland. Maybe somebody else knows different. Is it an Irish thing?

It seems to happen where the first name ends in a vowel sound, so that, for example: (fictitious names here for demonstration)

“William MacSquachle” would become “Willie 'Squachle”
“John MacGlumpher” would become “Johnnie 'Glumpher”

There must be some historical reason, maybe in the Gaelic tradition, why this happens in Kintyre and nowhere else. It is one of these aspects of local language use that we all do and take for granted until we think about it and wonder “why?”

I know that the Mac is often dropped in my maternal surname, which is one of the oldest names in Kintyre, and that bearers of the name are often referred to locally by the Gaelic version of the name, with or without the Mac.

[ionnsaigh]

Sorry to say EMDEE - the dropping of the "Mac" in surnames isn't exclusive to Kintyre. All the countries that had a Gaelic tradition - experienced similar. Mac and O where dropped in Wales - in the 15th Century - with the introduction of English law - forbidding the use of Gaelic. Irish Gaelic suffered a similar fate - as latterly Scotland. Our language and culture have undoubtedly suffered - at the hands of the dominant culture. The use of the law and pulpit - where significant instruments - in the promotion of English language and culture throughout the Gaelic world.
Mick O'Donoghue

[spangles]

A family of O'Donnghaile's from Ireland had to change their name to Donnelly when they moved to Glasgow from Donegal at the beginning of the last century. Their descendants found this out when they were making up a family tree.

Apparently the change of name came about because they found it difficult to find work or accomodation because of the stigma attached to the Irish version!!

Maybe the same reasons for the name changes in Kintyre?

S

[ionnsaigh]

Spangles,
As far as I'm aware the English translation of O'Donnghaile (brown) is Donnelly. So that would be right enough. I would go further than attributing - the woes of the Gael - to mere stigma. It was a stigma created by a fearful English ruling class - that had unsuccessfully failed to subject the Gael previously. Clever stuff from what was to become our English masters.
O'Donnchada ( brown warrior )