Campbeltown Nursery

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Campbeltown Nursery

Postby Kintyre Forum News » Fri Mar 21, 2008 10:09 pm

Excellent article in the Courier today regarding the state of Campbeltown Nursery (next to Castlehill School).

The article is now published from the website at.

Any views on this?

http://www.campbeltowncourier.co.uk/new ... it%92.html

Nursery building ‘not fit’

The Courier banned from taking photographs of crumbling building as parents and councillors gather to apply pressure to the council to get something done about state of nursery

Published: 21 March, 2008

THE future of Campbeltown Nursery and the safety of its staff and children are under threat after the building has been described as ‘not fit for purpose’ by Kintyre councillors.

The building is in an appalling state of repair with a leaky roof in many parts, a room unable to be used because of mould and windows not being able to be opened for ventilation as it is feared they may fall in.

In February last year parents got together to try to get something done about a replacement building and photographs taken by The Courier at that time showed rotten wood and peeling paint around the outside of the building. Now a meeting has been called between parents and councillors to once again try and get something done about the crumbling building, which took place as The Courier went to press.

The flat-roofed temporary building from the 1970s was described last year as ‘coming to the end of its useful life’, but a year on it is still in full use with the Nursery Group, Meadows Under-Fives, and the Toy Library still being held in the building.

Argyll and Bute Council banned The Courier from entering onto the premises of Campbeltown Nursery this week so updated photographs were unable to be taken, but parents have once again expressed their fear for their children’s safety, particularly with the recent windy and wet weather we have experienced.

When parents contacted Argyll and Bute Council, they were told that the council is not committing funding to the building because a plan for education in Campbeltown has not been drawn up yet.

Councillor Donald Kelly has invited both the director of community services Douglas Hendry and spokeswoman for education and lifelong learning, Isobel Strong to Campbeltown to see for themselves the state the nursery is in, and although they were in thetown in December they said they did not have time to look at the nursery. But neither has been back since.

Councillor Kelly said: ‘Argyll and Bute Council have a moral responsibility to replace this building as a matter of urgency. If it was any other area you can guarantee it would have been replaced by now. This building is no longer fit for purpose and I have been pushing this issue since June last year.

‘I have asked the Council’s health and safety department to carry out a report on the building. It is important that this issue is brought to a conclusion as soon as possible and I will endeavour to keep working to this end.’

With the School Estate Strategy looking at a possible joining of rural primary schools and Campbeltown Grammar School, similar to what has been done in Lochgilphead, there would not be much point in spending money for new permanent facilities for the nursery if one was to be built joining together all the education facilities in Campbeltown, including the nursery, in a few years time.

Councillor Kelly suggested a modular building to replace the existing building that could be moved about. He said: ‘In September 2007, I asked the Council’s Capital Programme manager to cost a new modular building which would meet the requirements of the existing nursery. This was costed at approximately £400,000.

‘The reason for asking for a modular building was that if changes were made to the existing school estate this building could be replaced if required.’

Councillor Rory Colville has asked for a full report at the April meeting of the Argyll and Bute Council’s area committee.

He said: ‘We have asked for a report at the April meeting of the area committee regarding the nursery and the facility it provides.

‘It is obvious the building cannot wait until we make the decision for the school estate as this decision is four or five years away.

‘No longer fit for use’

‘Hopefully the area committee can make a decision on a way forward for the nursery. The building is no longer fit for use.’

A council spokeswoman said: ‘We’re looking at a number of options regarding the refurbishment or replacement of Campbeltown Nursery and a report will submitted to the area committee later in the year.’

Parent Carolyn Renton has written two letters to the council concerning the building. She has a son at the nursery who will be leaving this year and a daughter who will be starting Meadows Under-fives this year which is held at the nursery and she is concerned about the state of the building.

She said: ‘The council have responded to the letters I have written but I have been told that they can’t give a definite response as to what will happen to that building and whether they can commit any funding or not.

‘The building is in an appalling state of repair but they had wanted to wait for the education plan for Campbeltown to be drawn up before a decision regarding this building was made which is several years down the line, as far as we are concerned this cannot wait another year.’

Councillor John Semple said: ‘The state of repair of our educational establishments across South Kintyre is found wanting in many respects, but none more so than at Campbeltown Nursery.

‘This is a legacy of neglect from previous councils which I am keen to see tackled in a level-headed, non-political way.

‘To me, as a lay person, the building seems unfit for purpose, patching it up is not cost effective and a serious drain on the taxpayer.

‘Progressing with a new build now would be irresponsible until we know what the options for the remainder of the school estate will look like.

‘Further consultations on the school estate will take place in the coming months. The priority for the families using the nursery today will be, I’m sure, to have a suitable, well equipped, space which meets the requirements of the care commission and is wind and watertight. Campbeltown has no shortage of underutilised space. Such a building, or space within one, should be identified and arrangements made to relocate the present nursery until the School Estate Strategy is implemented, even if it means some upheaval for others.’

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Re: Campbeltown Nursery

Postby Ileach B » Fri Mar 21, 2008 10:49 pm

Kintyre Forum News wrote:With the School Estate Strategy looking at a possible joining of rural primary schools and Campbeltown Grammar School, similar to what has been done in Lochgilphead, there would not be much point in spending money for new permanent facilities for the nursery if one was to be built joining together all the education facilities in Campbeltown, including the nursery, in a few years time.

[/quote]

Was there not a vote in the past about joint campus with the grammar in the past for grammar/primaries? And it was voted no? Is this going to be enforced evenually?

I think it is terrible that the Council have not maintained the building to standards of other Educations building like Castlehill school? I thought the vote in the past was joint campus or an overhaul of educational buildings? maybe I'm wrong?

I have one that went and one going to Meadows, and think it is a shame that a building with such an importance in the community is being neglected! Surely the council can come up with something temporary while it is overhauled?maintained? THe community centre?
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Postby Beachcomber » Sat Mar 22, 2008 1:00 am

Both of my two youngest children went to the Meadows and I cannot fault the staff there in any way. They're brilliant.

It's a disgrace that the council are hiding behind the lack of a 'plan' as an excuse for not having done something to repair or replace the crumbling building.

What would it cost to tear down the old building and replace it with an 'off-the-shelf' pre-fabricated unit?
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Postby John S » Sat Mar 22, 2008 3:42 pm

about £450 - 500k
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Re: Campbeltown Nursery

Postby John S » Sat Mar 22, 2008 3:53 pm

Ileach B wrote:
Was there not a vote in the past about joint campus with the grammar in the past for grammar/primaries? And it was voted no? Is this going to be enforced evenually?


While the idea of a single campus was rejected there was a fair bit of support for a joint primary but this was not on offer. Enforced; consultation will take place, the outcome of which may not please everyone.
I think it is terrible that the Council have not maintained the building to standards of other Educations building like Castlehill school? I thought the vote in the past was joint campus or an overhaul of educational buildings? maybe I'm wrong?

If only; the offer of the joint campus some years ago was take it or leave it. Castlehill school is also in need of significant repair
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Re: Campbeltown Nursery

Postby howlsatthemoon » Sat Mar 22, 2008 5:34 pm

John S wrote:Castlehill school is also in need of significant repair


So is Dalintober Primary school :wink:
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Postby Beachcomber » Sun Mar 23, 2008 12:22 pm

John S wrote:about £450 - 500k

That sounds like an enormous amount of money for what is, on the face of it, a quite simple structure. Has the council actually costed this out or is that just a guestimate?

I was surprised and impressed by the sort of modular nursery buildings that are available at, for instance, the Portakabin Website. No prices listed unfortunately.
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Postby mrn » Sun Mar 23, 2008 12:53 pm

£450 - £500k does seem alot? Give me half a million and I could build one of the best houses in Kintyre. :shock: :lol:
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Postby John S » Sun Mar 23, 2008 1:54 pm

Beachcomber wrote:
John S wrote:about £450 - 500k

That sounds like an enormous amount of money for what is, on the face of it, a quite simple structure. Has the council actually costed this out or is that just a guestimate?

I was surprised and impressed by the sort of modular nursery buildings that are available at, for instance, the Portakabin Website. No prices listed unfortunately.

Rough estimate at this stage, distance from manufacturing bases is a big issue with this type of building for remote locations. I got some estimates for a similar structure when fundraising for the Changing Facilities on the Meadows playing field. Once you get away from the lower end; typical workmans hut structures, prices increase significantly. The nature of these buildings also offers little for in the way of work for local tradesmen.

If the building then has to be relocated to function as part of a new campus, again the cost will not be insignificant.

Would be happy to be proven wrong however. :wink:
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Postby Glory Blazer » Tue Mar 25, 2008 10:54 am

http://www.gmlconstruction.co.uk/images ... k-Jill.pdf

Surely this proves the figure of 450 - 500k is nowhere near the right ball park. Also look at the duration of the works, a cost effective a speedy remedy is clearly not too difficult.

Looks the the Council Capital Programmes Manager needs to get hold of a new calculator. :lol: :lol:

Google GML Construction. They can customise and meet your criteria. 8) 8)
Last edited by Glory Blazer on Tue Mar 25, 2008 12:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Glory Blazer » Tue Mar 25, 2008 11:40 am

http://www.gmlconstruction.co.uk/images ... ollege.pdf

Or should your criteria be something larger and more robust, i.e clad in bricks, then this may suit better.
Well worth noting this facility cost 1/5th of the estimate of 500k.

Worth looking into possibly. Any comments? Would this be a suitable solution?

Also with drainage/foundations/services and brickwork required within a project such as this, it would present work for local businesses. 8) :wink:
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Postby general jack o'niell » Tue Mar 25, 2008 5:05 pm

don't know which bit of thin air that figure was grabbed out of, gort to be the stupidest thing i've heard in a long time, half a million to replace the current building? nonsense thougfht that cowboy that designed holyrood was deid? as for the part of a new campus part? you can forget that right away, not going to happen, not as long as parents have a say in it. that proposal has more holes in it than the nursery. maybe they plan to have marine boy as rector in any such campus, all supposing they think they can use the previously earmarked site, or are the council in the process of growing more land with the magic beans they bought from the crowd that built lochgilphead aircraft hanger, i mean grammar.

would this £500,000 build have the same built in 25yr obsolecance that the "campus" plan had, build to be on the verge of collapse when ownership reverts back to the council. the site of any replacement should be on the present site and if a prefabricated model wouldn't give local trades work then it doesn't stop outside firms getting a lot of building work that i see going on at present. ok so there are local brickies (some) and joiners (some) getting work from these projects but i see a lot of electrical and plumbing contractors vans on these jobs. its a well known fact that the nursery has been deliberatly rundown, it was ready for demolishing when my youngest left it eight years ago. likewise castlehill and i suppose dalintober but i can't speak for that school. every year more and more work needs done at castlehill while its overall budget gets cut and i know this to be a fact, if it needed upgrading then why was half the playground allowed to be annexed by argyll college? why did it take eight years to get the simple covered walkway erected, the school was given the impression this would cost countless thousands when in fact it only cost in the region of £9,000, the roof has leaked for years, what did the coucil do? gave the school plastic buckets!!!! no, i'm not joking, they fiddle the figures to make it look as if the school is under capacity, no doubt to enable another run at closing drumblemble. how the teaching staff manage year after year to supply the very highest level and standard of education (school inspectors words) baffles me, theres been more money spent on council offices than has been spent on the upkeep of the schools, castlehill only got an adequate fire alarm system a couple of years ago, any other place of work would have been shut in similiar circumstances.

the money from the sale of the dell rd building would have more than covered the cost of replacing the nursery with a solid brick building, fitted out for the purposes required or was that sold off cheap too? remember, i know the market value of a building that size in that site. not getting at you john, just your the only one that ever takes the time to try and communicate with the public via this forum, hope the injury gets better soon, and i hope sally cinammon gets better even sooner!!!!!
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Postby mrn » Fri Mar 28, 2008 9:49 pm

John S wrote:
Beachcomber wrote:
John S wrote:about £450 - 500k

That sounds like an enormous amount of money for what is, on the face of it, a quite simple structure. Has the council actually costed this out or is that just a guestimate?

I was surprised and impressed by the sort of modular nursery buildings that are available at, for instance, the Portakabin Website. No prices listed unfortunately.

Rough estimate at this stage, distance from manufacturing bases is a big issue with this type of building for remote locations. I got some estimates for a similar structure when fundraising for the Changing Facilities on the Meadows playing field. Once you get away from the lower end; typical workmans hut structures, prices increase significantly. The nature of these buildings also offers little for in the way of work for local tradesmen.

If the building then has to be relocated to function as part of a new campus, again the cost will not be insignificant.

Would be happy to be proven wrong however. :wink:


I can't help but think you have this completely wrong John. 500k to replace the existing nursery is ludicrous. I'm not saying I know but we have done a number of new builds and conversions over the last few years and your quotes are was off the mark.

Firstly, the Council has the site - no requirement to purchase the land. Secondly the current site houses an existing Nursery so no concerns about planning etc. Thirdly the existing site doesn't appear to need any ground or major foundation works. Fourthly as pointed out by others it isn't the Taj Mahal you are building! Did the Meadows changing rooms cost 500k? :shock:
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Postby Beachcomber » Sun Mar 30, 2008 11:31 pm

John, is it possible to see a breakdown of the £450K guestimate at all?

Given the appalling state of the current building (are the HSE/EH aware of it?) I think the issue of whether it could be relocated to another site at some future date is largely irrelevent.
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Postby westport321 » Sun Mar 30, 2008 11:45 pm

the library building would have made a great nursery
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