Bigotry!! Football problem or social problem

[Govangirl]

[
I nipped over the road to Mohammed's this morning for the paper and a few rolls. while i was there an Aulds delivery driver came in and someone commented to him "cheer up". he replied he was as happy as can be as another fenian B...... was deid. When Mohammed said thats enough of that, he was called a black b.... himself. These are the people who should be on the plane to Amsterdam. Its a disgrace that this happens in the 21st century in Scotland.

We do have problems in this country and frankly I've no idea how we solve them.

To see a comment from a (I'm assuming) Rangers fan on another board that the only thing Celtic will lift this season is Tommy Burns's coffin is absolutely sickening. I was angry when I read that and I can feel the anger coming back now as I'm typing.

1. Hume says he doesn't know how to solve the problems. For a start, we don't tolerate it. I would phone Auld's and report this scum. It should be a sacking offence.
2. The comment, if it is still on the board, should be removed and the poster banned. That is a disgrace.

My brother's only son died just over 3 years ago as an indirect result of this sectarianism. He was jumped from behind by a gang of rival supporters who kicked his head like a football. A few months later he died from a brain swelling - the consultant couldn't prove it was the kicking but we knew. He was 19. His only crime was to wear a Rangers strip. I can't get my head around that. My lovely, peaceful, clever, gentle, funny nephew and his sorrowful mum and dad who can't recover - the ripples are still spreading in our family.

[EMDEE]

I don’t think I have ever posted on the sport chit chat forum before, but I looked in here tonight and saw the thread of the discussion. This is a social problem, not just a problem for the sporting community. I have been prompted into saying something.

I was in Glasgow last weekend and met up with my brother, and during the general conversation I remarked that our father’s complete disinterest in football had rubbed off on both of us. He agreed.

When I see some of the things that are done and said in the name of football, I am very grateful for my father’s legacy to us.

I have no interest whatsoever in football, but know that the majority of football fans are indeed that, football fans, and although I do not share their interest, I respect their right to their pastime. The problem is the neds who jump on the bandwagon, and this is obviously a thing that the majority of true football fans also frown on.

In a way, football has become a vehicle for some youngsters to express their frustrations, in many cases with tragic consequences, as Govangirl has related in very intimate terms.

What is the answer? Can this element ever be eradicated? Every generation seems to bring forward new neds!

The Scottish Parliament has already expressed its policy on sectarianism. Can these neds not take this on board and realise that this is not an appropriate way to assert yourself, i.e. to make a point of being a member of a “minority” group and then adopt a confrontational stance to the whole of civilised society.

Maybe I was cocooned from football violence in my younger days, as I lived in Campbeltown, and it was just a game, without any overtones, but I know this is the way it should be.

A bloody long post for someone who has never posted on Sport Chit Chat before!

[daftdog]

1. Hume says he doesn't know how to solve the problems. For a start, we don't tolerate it. I would phone Auld's and report this scum. It should be a sacking offence.

It did cross my mind Govangirl, but decided against it, as the man may have a wife and kids, so thought its not worth them suffering because of that idiot and the more he is out the house the less bile he can spout in it in front of his kids. If i had clocked his left hand and spotted no ring i would have, as i was raging most of the day about it.

[paulmcw]

I have an opinnion on this nonsense. And its just to ignore it!
Everybody says its a big problem, its not! its just a problem when the papers want to make sales due to lack of other news! And its these papers who are the first to try and take "their stance on stamping it out" the papers stir it, every so often! Don't get me wrong, theres clowns everywhere that are past help!
i think when you come from camppbeltown and move to Glasgow, you see this more clearly.
I work in a place that holds app 2000 workers in everyday, and i asked one of my workmates, who was trying to explain "what happens in Glasgow wee man" and how i'll not understand cause i come from "a wee small place up NORTH!!"
But i asked him this. If Celtic are playing Rangers in a 7:45pm K/o do they close the yard? Seperate the workers??? So why do you feel so much hate towards a guy, you worked with 3hrs a go! and have done so for a long time and will continue to work with tomorrow??

The guy says i did'nt understand. I did, they're all full of sh*t and would like to think theres this big problem, theres not!

[A Horse called Juan Face]

sad to say that it happens worldwide, especially in the latin countries. Emdee said about the neds not listening to the First Minister or that, id be surprised if they knew who the first minister is. The problem is just humans arent very bright, thats about the height of it.

[Govangirl]

Juan, I would prefer to take a less apathetic and pessimistic view of human behaviour. Apathy is what in the end will destroy us all.
I agree with Emdee that this is a social problem and not one just pertaining to football.
Daftdog, you're just too decent a guy, I never thought of his innocent kids.
Paulmcw, we cannot choose to ignore this. I didn't read the newspapers on any of this but didn't need their view to feel ashamed of my fellow humans' behaviour.
This is a problem we need to face. Perhaps it should be moved out of the sport thread and into Speakers Corner as I would be interested in others' views. Done - Mod 7

[A Horse called Juan Face]

Juan, I would prefer to take a less apathetic and pessimistic view of human behaviour. Apathy is what in the end will destroy us all.
:

How do you work that out as being apathy? I said I dont think theres much we can do, but i didnt say i didnt care

[Govangirl]

Sorry Juan, I didn't mean that as a dig - just that I agreed with you that it happens worldwide and the general belief is that we treat it with apathy. Just clumsily put, sorry

I just believe that we CAN do something about it and if we think along the lines of just accepting it, we'll never change it.

[Malky]

Bigotry is a social problem. Rangers for instance, have been trying for years to get rid of it at their football matches but haven't really managed. They have no chance really as it's in-built in a lot of the people who support them. And there-in lies a problem - these supporters use football as an outlet for their bigotry and they have no inclination to change. It must be frustrating being at the top level of Rangers management and after all they've tried, still being stuck with the bigots.

I've never been a fan of football. I like the actual game, but the thing of following a team or the "my team is better than your team" stuff has always left me cold. To me it's tribalism and in the case of Rangers and Celtic it's tribalism + bigotry.

Funny thing, we had a barbecue last night and two of the people who were here were football fans. At one point they started on to each other about their respective teams (not Rangers or Celtic). After about 10 minutes of boredom I realised that neither had said anything positive about the others team - it was all negative and some of it quite nasty. Luckily the rest of the company steered the conversation away from football but for the remainder of the night there was still the odd dig flying between them. These two characters are intelligent people but as soon as they talked about football it was as if they dropped about 10 IQ points.

Just my 2 cents worth.

Malky

[EMDEE]

I would like to know what percentage of these sectarian bigots (on either side) are actually regular attenders of the respective churches that they are so proud of promoting and defending.

I would suppose that I could answer that one myself!

[Govangirl]

I cannot express it as eloquently as others have on this thread but I agree with the sentiments. I'm curious though and wonder if anyone can answer this: down here in England we have a compulsory subject on the curriculum called 'Citizenship' which we have to incorporate into other subjects too. This is about 'the political determination to confront key issues facing society' and includes divisions in society. Is there anything in the Scottish curriculum that's the same and would this include anti-sectarian teaching?

And another thought........ I was shocked to read yesterday in the press about the Royal Wedding that the bride had to give up her Catholic faith as Anne's son would lose his claim to be 11th in line to the throne. Is it not timely for the Act of Settlement to be repealed as part of the anti-sectarianism strategy in Scotland? I realise it's hundreds of years old but why should Catholics be excluded in this way in the 21st century? Surely this is undermining any effort to wipe out bigotry? I'm not a Catholic but this is shameful in a modern society.

[A Horse called Juan Face]

Sorry Juan, I didn't mean that as a dig - just that I agreed with you that it happens worldwide and the general belief is that we treat it with apathy. Just clumsily put, sorry

I just believe that we CAN do something about it and if we think along the lines of just accepting it, we'll never change it.

No bother, just wondered what you meant.

[EMDEE]

And another thought........ I was shocked to read yesterday in the press about the Royal Wedding that the bride had to give up her Catholic faith as Anne's son would lose his claim to be 11th in line to the throne. Is it not timely for the Act of Settlement to be repealed as part of the anti-sectarianism strategy in Scotland? I realise it's hundreds of years old but why should Catholics be excluded in this way in the 21st century? Surely this is undermining any effort to wipe out bigotry? I'm not a Catholic but this is shameful in a modern society.

Has this rule something to do with the monarch being the titular head of the Church of England and "Defender of the Faith" (whatever that means ) and would be deemed unable to fulfill these roles if married to a Roman Catholic?

Whatever the reason, like many aspects of Royalty in this country it is based on archaic rules which were made for a completely different society from today's.

The UK is trying to preach democracy to other countries, yet our head of state is an unelected individual whose right to the position is not earned through election nor merit, but through having the "right" ancestors. Double standard or hypocrisy?

Better stop there. Starting to rant and go off thread!

[A Horse called Juan Face]

I have an opinnion on this nonsense. And its just to ignore it!
Everybody says its a big problem, its not! its just a problem when the papers want to make sales due to lack of other news! And its these papers who are the first to try and take "their stance on stamping it out" the papers stir it, every so often! Don't get me wrong, theres clowns everywhere that are past help!
i think when you come from camppbeltown and move to Glasgow, you see this more clearly.
I work in a place that holds app 2000 workers in everyday, and i asked one of my workmates, who was trying to explain "what happens in Glasgow wee man" and how i'll not understand cause i come from "a wee small place up NORTH!!"
But i asked him this. If Celtic are playing Rangers in a 7:45pm K/o do they close the yard? Seperate the workers??? So why do you feel so much hate towards a guy, you worked with 3hrs a go! and have done so for a long time and will continue to work with tomorrow??

The guy says i did'nt understand. I did, they're all full of sh*t and would like to think theres this big problem, theres not!

I can sort of see where youre coming from, though knowing you, Im not sure if this is what you mean. But look at children. They dont discriminate on grounds such as race, religion, colour, sex or anything like that, generally if they dont like another child its because of who they are, not what they are. If somehow we could stop teaching people that divides exist they wouldnt exist. Human beings are naturally opposed to what is different from them, if we stop preaching about the differences, then theyll cease to exist.

[ionnsaigh]

Horse, if only.
Your post is - I suspect - more in the way of wishful thinking. You suggest that - by ignoring difference - that the difference would somehow disappear. In other words to negate the negation. to suck the lifeblood of the problem - leaving it spent.
However differences are manifestations of concrete examples that breed difference. Religious segregation and interference could be outlawed in a new Scotland. Economically are you suggesting that - if we ignore the difference between the poor people and the rich people - that both the slum and the mansion would cease to exist .