Bigotry!! Football problem or social problem

[EMDEE]

Presumably the Catholic/Protestant divide is the most prominent division within Scotland.

It will be impossible for this division to be ignored as long as there is separate education for Roman Catholic children.

They are segregated at the age of 5 and put to a different school from the others. This will oviously restrict any social interaction with others, and stamp them as to which "side of the fence" they are on.

To me, this can only serve to underline the fact that there are differences, and cannot possibly contribute to a society that would aspire to ignoring differences.

Would it not be better if all school pupils were taught together from the age of five, and learned about each other's beliefs in an atmosphere of mutual respect rather than division?

Maybe this is cloud-cuckoo stuff, considering that much of the bigotry is learned at home from the parents, who learned it from the grand parents, and so ad infinitum.

A true story from my own experience:

In the 1970s I went into a pub on the south side of Glasgow with one of my college friends (who happened to be a Catholic) This drunken Glaswegian asked what team I supported. I told him I don't follow football. He then asked what school I went to. I told him Campbeltown Grammar School. (obviously he had never heard of the place). Running out of ideas he then came out with the real question that he wanted answered. "Are you a Protestant or a Catholic"?

I told him I was an agnostic.

Why is it that the first thing some people want to know when they meet you is your religion?

[ionnsaigh]

Agnostic eh - a catholic or protestant wan ? The shit runs deep. there you go - am fur hell - of course they told me that when I was seven years old. The Holy Roman Catholic Church.

[Govangirl]

But look at children. They dont discriminate on grounds such as race, religion, colour, sex or anything like that, generally if they dont like another child its because of who they are, not what they are. If somehow we could stop teaching people that divides exist they wouldnt exist. Human beings are naturally opposed to what is different from them, if we stop preaching about the differences, then theyll cease to exist.

Would it not be better if all school pupils were taught together from the age of five, and learned about each other's beliefs in an atmosphere of mutual respect rather than division?

Maybe this is cloud-cuckoo stuff, considering that much of the bigotry is learned at home from the parents, who learned it from the grand parents, and so ad infinitum.

I agree totally. I was trained at Jordanhill in Glasgow but my fellow colleagues here cannot understand why even teachers are in Protestant or Catholic training institutions!!! My own children have no concept of this division as they are all taught together and although there are one or two Catholic schools, anyone can attend - and I can teach there too, presumably unlike Glasgow. Horse and Emdee are right - it starts with the children and their education, whether that be in school or at home.

[Ship called Dignity]

I agree too - we spoke about this recently and I can't understand why we still have separate Primary Schools in Campbeltown. At the end of the day we all end up going to the same Grammar School and I just think it serves to highlight the religous differences that kids don't need to know.

I also blame parents too for pushing their kids to support whatever team they support.

[Ninja Mania]

I also blame parents too for pushing their kids to support whatever team they support.

Not always the case ScD, I have 2 boys, the 1st one followed me and of course Celtic, until all his mates who all supported Rangers, converted him. (The Gers must have been on a winning run back then).

My second son supported Rangers at first, because of his pals, but in true blue (fcuk this their crap) style, he converted himself into a Celtic supporter.

None of my boys were pressured into following my team, but both changed their allegence, to follow the opposite sides of the old firm.
Having said that, the first team I can ever remember following was Dundee utd, but my auld grampa soon put a stop to that, but thats another story.

[Bobbie En Tejas]

Having said that, the first team I can ever remember following was Dundee utd..

What religion are they?

[A Horse called Juan Face]

Yes, Ionnsaigh, my post was about what id like to see happen, not what I think will happen.
Emdee, I actually meant to put in about the abolition of different schools, but I forgot. Oops.

[ionnsaigh]

Having said that, the first team I can ever remember following was Dundee utd..

What religion are they?

Sad thing is Bobbie they are Christians - our own unique blend of sect segregation - of Sunni Shia proportions. Religion seems only to divide people - not only others of the same religion - also others of different religions.
As far as bigotry in the west coast of Scotland is concerned - football is used merely as a platform - by those moronic half educated idiots - who chant absolutely disgusting songs at Ibrox park ( Rangers ) week in week out.
Now perhaps the same could be said - of the half educated moronic idiots - who turn up to support Celtic. I'm not sure if that is the case - most of the songs sung at parkhead appear to be love songs - or Irish rebel songs. Maybe I'm wrong about this - Do Celtic fans sing any songs that appear to be - disgusting to Rangers fans?
Glasgow Rangers would never allow a catholic to play for them - the same cant be said of Glasgow Celtic.
History shows - that any two sides - are easily identified - as either being reactionary or revolutionary .
I know which side I'm on - or at least I think I do.
Incidentally if you where looking for a group of right wing fascists - the god save the queen mob - who wave the butchers apron - then Ibrox is the place for you.
In saying that these are in a tiny minority - the Orange Walk brigade. The sad thing is that most Ranger fans are perfectly decent law abiding people - that may perhaps - get carried away - with the singing of the sash.

[Ranald]

Glasgow Rangers would never allow a catholic to play for them

Of all the cack in your last post, this particular bit jumped out. Can you not remember Mo Johnston? Or Lorenzo Amoruso the Catholic Rangers captain? Paul Le Guen, the Catholic Rangers manager?

Some of the crap Celtic fans come out with is just as offensive as the Rangers party tunes. It's time for people to stop blaming one side or the other and admit that there is a problem in both the green and blue halves of Glasgow. Posts like your last one do the debate absolutely no good whatsoever.

[Ranald]

Glasgow Rangers would never allow a catholic to play for them

Of all the cack in your last post, this particular bit jumped out. Can you not remember Mo Johnston? Or Lorenzo Amoruso the Catholic Rangers captain? Paul Le Guen, the Catholic Rangers manager?

Some of the crap Celtic fans come out with is just as offensive as the Rangers party tunes. It's time for people to stop blaming one side or the other and admit that there is a problem in both the green and blue halves of Glasgow. Posts like your last one do the debate absolutely no good whatsoever.

[daftdog]

Glasgow Rangers would never allow a catholic to play for them - the same cant be said of Glasgow Celtic.

I can give you the names of about 18, including Maurice "Mo" Johnston (1989-1991) if you like

Pat Lafferty (1886), Tom Dunbar (1891-1892), J Tutty (1899-1900), Archie Kyle (1904-1908), Willie Kivlichan (1906-1907), Colin Mainds (1906-1907), Tom Murray (1907-1908), William Brown (1912), Joe Donnachie (circa.1914-1918), John Jackson (1917), Laurie Blyth (1951-1952), Don Kichenbrand (1955-1956), Hugh O'Neill (1976),Maurice "Mo" Johnston (1989-1991) and John Spencer (1985-1992), Gennaro Gattuso (1997–1998), Lorenzo Amoruso (1997–2003) was the club's captain during his rangers career, Mikel Arteta (2002–2004)

And Lets not forget Paul Le Guen (2006-2007) he didnt play for them, but did manage them..

[Govangirl]

Are you being serious Ionnsaigh? What utter drivel! The idea that Celtic sing 'love songs' and Rangers sing only 'absolutely disgusting' ones would make me laugh out loud if it wasn't such guff! I can't say it any better than Ranald:

Some of the crap Celtic fans come out with is just as offensive as the Rangers party tunes. It's time for people to stop blaming one side or the other and admit that there is a problem in both the green and blue halves of Glasgow. Posts like your last one do the debate absolutely no good whatsoever.

[A Horse called Juan Face]

Me and Buffalupicus were at a game at Valhalla versus the Tic. For the last half an hour of the game they sung constantly a song about some boy called Kieran McAnespie who was something to do with the IRA. Wallopers. The Old Firm = Plastic surgery gone wrong, and yes I know ive used that one before.

[A Horse called Juan Face]

I also blame parents too for pushing their kids to support whatever team they support.

Not always the case ScD, I have 2 boys, the 1st one followed me and of course Celtic, until all his mates who all supported Rangers, converted him. (The Gers must have been on a winning run back then).

Whats his excuse for liking Arsenal then? Oh dear oh dear. I hope he reads this.

[ionnsaigh]

So what songs do Rangers supporters find religiously offensive - I think that is a fair enough question .
As far as Rangers not signing catholic's is concerned - you named approx 18 dog from 1886 - barely one football team with subs. How many thousand protestant players have played for Rangers - again a fair question - lets put it into perspective.
Ranald, in order to do the debate some justice - can you substantiates your claim -and name the songs that give so much offence.
The Billy Boys was a right wing fascist group in Glasgow. Do Celtic supporters sing songs that remotely resemble - the up to your knees in catholic blood variety. Do they ? please answer . If they do then - I humbly apologise in advance - in other words put up - or shut up.