June 23th – 24th, 1314

[Govangirl]

The Battle of Bannockburn was undoubtedly one of the most spectacular battles of the Scottish Wars of Independence. Let's forget the Hollywood version of Robert Bruce as a traitor in that vile and distorted film. Bruce was a man of outstanding bravery and courage, who with amazing tactics and perseverance led the Scots through thirty years of war to win their longed-for FREEDOM.

[Sheik Yir Erse]

Bruce was a man of outstanding bravery and courage......

I thought 'opportunistic' and 'self-serving' could also have been levelled at him. Did he not side with the English, then with Wallace, then with the English again, then the Scots again, then the Lib Dems, then Tommy Sheridan, then UKIP? As the old saying goes about the Scots goes - when we've not got someone else to fight, we just fight amongst ourselves!

[Govangirl]

I just think it's a poor country that debases it's heroes. Yes, he was a man who made mistakes and he could be selfish and cruel at times but he was also a gifted warrior, monarch, and a saviour of Scottish identity from extinction at the hands of Edward.
We have much to thank him for. I'll be toasting a wee dram to him anyway.

And desperate is the man who would side with Tommy Sheridan!

[Sheik Yir Erse]

It's equally a poor country who is blind to any negative traits of it's heroes. I didn't think I had debased him, I was merely adding some other facts to your thread (with the exception of the Tommy Sheridan statement)

I'm sure Ionns will be on soon to tell us how de Brus was nothing more than an aristocrat seeking to gain the Scottish throne by whatever means necessary and how the common peasants were trampled underfoot in order to serve the greater need of the noble landowners, or something along those lines. It'll be class war related anyway

[Govangirl]

It's equally a poor country who is blind to any negative traits of it's heroes.

But isn't that what we do with everyone we know? We focus on their positive aspects realising we are not all perfect? Otherwise, how would all you men ever get any of us up the aisle?????

But yes, Ionns WILL soon be on and it will be exactly as you predict

[ionnsaigh]

Sorry to burst yer wee romantic bubble girl. I vaguely remember reading an old history book re Bruce. It cites that the news of his death spread quickly to Glasgow and that other place. People lit bonfires danced and sang in the streets. OK so only the winners write history, however the very fact that these allegations prevail to this day - only adds to that old cliché - where there's smoke there could be fire .Funny how no such allegations surround Wallace - he's my man -.
Your getin carried away wae an Ayrshire romantic womaniser tax collector free mason alcoholic .
Mind you his poems wur gid

[A Horse called Juan Face]

Aye, but so William Wallace only started his crusade because he got done for stealing fish. There was no Mirin.

I'm serious Robert. SOOOOOOOOO AMMMMMMMMM IIIIIIIIIIIIII

[Govangirl]

Your getin carried away wae a romantic womaniser.... free mason alcoholic .

Most of the men I know in Glasgow fall into that category!

[Govangirl]

Ionns, You surprise me - Do you really not cherish what Bruce fought for - the goal of a fully independent Scottish Nation?

But okay then, I give in, let's run down every great Scottish hero there ever was, including Burns, and let it happen on this great date.

[EMDEE]

Ionns, You surprise me - Do you really not cherish what Bruce fought for - the goal of a fully independent Scottish Nation?

But okay then, I give in, let's run down every great Scottish hero there ever was, including Burns, and let it happen on this great date.

For some reason there seems to be an inbuilt self-deprecating trait in the Scottish psyche.

"A prophet is not without honour, but in his own country, and among his own kin, and in his own house." - Gospel according to St Mark, Ch 6, V 4.

Sometimes summed up in Scotland in the couthy expression "Ah kent his faither!".

[Govangirl]

For some reason there seems to be an inbuilt self-deprecating trait in the Scottish psyche.

How true and wise, Emdee. I've found this often but it's terribly sad. Of course I realise that great men have faults and that Robert the Bruce has often been portrayed as a vacillating turncoat but I do think the tide is turning.
Anyway, Here's tae us, and wha's like us (and thankfully, they're no a' deid!) who think the same!