Knife Crime

[EMDEE]

Whilst it is becoming more and more apparent that there is a need to get tough on knife crime, "getting tough" i.e. automatic jail sentences, which may be percieved as the only short term "solution", is just papering over the cracks in society that are causing the upsurge in this type of crime.

To deal effectively with this there needs to be a wider view of the whole problem, which the politicians on all sides, as far as I can see, seem to be ignoring in their current rhetoric. Crime does not exist in isolation, it has a cause, and merely treating the symptoms of a delinquent society is not a solution to such a deep-seated problem.

This is a very difficult problem to solve, and the use of the criminal law system alone is not going to solve it.

[bill]

Marksmen posted on rooftops in city centres,anyone seen brandishing a knife...SHOOT THEM.

[ionnsaigh]

bill,
Ten boy scouts shot by police marksmen. The Queen was shot as she carried an offensive weapon (sword). The funerals of two local butchers, a fishmonger - a painter and decorator - four electricians - one plumber - twenty fishermen - are being held today. But see them 300 arseholes with their double barrel shotguns - shooting anything that moves - are they included in your - shoot on site policy ?.

[FlyingDragon]

I use to think that people were safer in small towns and rural areas, but no more. The greatest killer of mankind is ignoring our youth. Solutions to prevent them from taking on a life of crime might be more men who care like yourselves. At least Campbeltown has created an oppurtunity for the youth in music and sports. Here in America Drugs have really begun to be a problem because some parents seem too busy to raise their own children. Finally I believe it boils down to a respect of God and country. Unless they are raised up in the faith of our fathers-or at least the sense of loving our neighbors; crimes will be committed. When you compare Britain to New York states crime record, yours seems much smaller. I believe that in Scotland at least the spirit of Scotland's Robert the Bruce, Saint Columba ,and William Wallace still beats strong in your hearts and minds. Your country must be doing something right!

[hugh]

Flying Dragon.

Do they still have "Zero tolerance" in New York? Not sure if they'd have the resources here to do it, a lot of the money allocated for security, health, welfare, education, etc. seems to get swallowed up by bureaucracy before it gets to street level.

[FlyingDragon]

There still is supposed to be zero tolerance in New York, but when will it end? I notice that cigarette smokers and cell phone operators are now the new outcasts from society in the states. Your Scotland is a paradise that needs to be protected. That Includes making sure that everyone gets excellent health care. Meanwhile, How many camera's and telephone taps must be done until someone discovers that parents need to take a stand against crime? Somehow parents and their communities need to mentor their kids and protect them from the real criminals who are getting kids hooked on drugs.

[ionnsaigh]

I use to think that people were safer in small towns and rural areas, but no more. The greatest killer of mankind is ignoring our youth. Solutions to prevent them from taking on a life of crime might be more men who care like yourselves. At least Campbeltown has created an oppurtunity for the youth in music and sports. Here in America Drugs have really begun to be a problem because some parents seem too busy to raise their own children. Finally I believe it boils down to a respect of God and country. Unless they are raised up in the faith of our fathers-or at least the sense of loving our neighbors; crimes will be committed. When you compare Britain to New York states crime record, yours seems much smaller. I believe that in Scotland at least the spirit of Scotland's Robert the Bruce, Saint Columba ,and William Wallace still beats strong in your hearts and minds. Your country must be doing something right!

I would say being a city dweller - that it is far safer to stay in smaller places. People in small towns generally know who's who.
They can be highly selected in the company they keep - and the places they frequent. Whereas here in the city - there is a larger movement of people - who come and go. Itinerant tenants such as students. In the city centre you can't tell the baddies from the goodies. Too many people.
I suppose you could reasonably compare - one of Glasgow's notorious housing schemes with a small town. What may be harder to spot are the boundaries of each gang they are highly territorial by nature. The gang forms completely normally - they grow up together.
I don't see - or feel under threat when I'm in Kintyre. I have well tuned radar.

I agree we as a society - can't afford to exclude our young people. However positive role models are important - they remain on the periphery of the problem. One has to examine the conditions that give rise to crime. One has to look at the relationship between poverty and crime. Where you get the highest area's of deprivation -you encounter the highest rates of crime.
Drugs are a problem anywhere - you can buy every type of known illegal drug - on the streets of Campbeltown. Drugs and crime may be related - however they appear a poor comparison when juxtaposed with poverty and crime.

I agree that family installed moral values -are far better constraints on crime figures.
Personally speaking I have no particular attachment to God or Country. country = Britain.
It could be reasonably argued that the United States government push - the concepts of god and country slightly too far.

I really love the way you Americans see things - particularly when it comes to size. Who other would compare the crime figures of Four Countries to that of One American State - is beyond my comprehension.

I hope you don't take this the wrong way Dragon - see when it comes to Scotland - your a complete romantic - your heart is in the right place mate. However strong emotions have an uncanny knack of distorting reality.
Glad you have become a regular poster though - it certainly adds to the soup.
regards
Mick.

[EMDEE]

This is what I was getting at in my original post. It is poverty, deprivation and social exclusion that is at the root of a lot of the crime that we see in society at the moment. We are hearing precious little from the politicians about how they plan to address these problems as a long term strategy to reduce the crime rate. You can lock up as many youngsters as you like for carrying knives, it might be a vote winner, but it is not going to eradicate crime. If you have nothing to lose anyway, a few years behind bars is not going to make much difference to you, and you'll maybe come out in a better position not to get caught the next time.

Funny how both main parties claim that they are going to eradicate poverty yet it never seems to happen. It's very easy to be cynical about politicians in this country.

[FlyingDragon]

Yes, I suppose you can keep track of most of the people , although there is cultural boundaries which impedes knowing any elicit actions of individuals in that group. Here in the U.S. certain gangs tend to congregate together, and are fiercely devoted to their group. However , more and more in the states gangs that deal in drugs are going into small towns and setting up shop. They rent some old house in the sticks and set up a meth labs, or even start a network of ordering and shipping their drugs in by UPS. America, like your small towns still has places that everyone knows everyone else, making knife crimes and shootings less of a normal occurrence. I,m sure that In Campbeltown it’s a great advantage knowing everybody. I find it quite hilarious that my wife Caroline can go anywhere in Kintyle and be noticed. There are no secrets in such a close knit community. That of course is what makes Campbeltown and the Kintyre region so wonderful!

Poverty often can lead to high crime rates. Here in the U.S. there are people that are in poverty because of bureaucrats not knowing when to protect the sovereignty of its citizens. Selling out the land to global industries has proven to be a huge mistake. Large tracks of land have been taken over and turned into giant corporate farms, making it hard for smaller farmers to compete. I believe a major condition contributing to the rise of crime is tolerance of the criminal. I suppose there has to be middle ground when dealing out justice to knife welding thugs, but ” prevention is worth a pound of cure”. From my perspective as an American I see something that goes beyond patriotism in Britain. Its the indelible courage to take on any situation no matter how grim. This I believe is what we in the colonies inherited from our forefathers. When I walk through Campbeltown I can see this courage in the eyes of everyone there. It knits the families together and has the power to make Scotland and all of Britain a better place. My wife Caroline has that kind of spirit, and God help the soul who crosses her.

When i compared Britain to New York I was referring to square miles. There are many factors including culture that make it quite different from one another. New York state is 54,471.144 square miles. The United Kingdom has Its total area of 244,820 square kilometers (94,525 square miles), while Scotland has an area of 78,775 square kilometers (30,415 square miles). I agree, emotions can be a dangerous thing. There is a term called emotional intelligence, and often without logical sense it can make a leader useless in time of troubles. But on the other hand, on the other side of the coin; A good idea can go overboard and lead to a witch hunt. For example , recently in new York city due to the "Zero tolerance" law one man fell asleep on a subway and was arrested for it. I rather enjoy the discussions here as well. Thank you

[gizmo]

OMG finally someone as long winded as Ionnsaigh...
Does anyone really believe you can eradicate poverty, surely it is relative.. Not that long ago people were not as well off as most of us are these days but didnt resort to stabbing folk to get their point across (no pun intended). I remember reading about the Glaswegian craze for slashing each other in the 50s and 60s, that was brought to a halt quite quickly by some severe sentencing..

[EMDEE]

I certainly don’t believe that any government of any political colour will ever eradicate poverty completely. However, it is surely their duty to try to create the conditions for opportunity so that people, and particularly youngsters, can realise their potential and aspirations, instead of having no prospects, no hope and no future. It’s not just a case of being “not very well off”, but of being trapped in a situation with no light at the end of the tunnel.

The society that we have now has a lot more complex social problems than existed in the 1950s and 60s.

I am not trying to justify crime, or play down the need for more realistic sentencing, but standing back and trying to take an objective longer term view.

[FlyingDragon]

I certainly don’t believe that any government of any political colour will ever eradicate poverty completely. However, it is surely their duty to try to create the conditions for opportunity so that people, and particularly youngsters, can realise their potential and aspirations, instead of having no prospects, no hope and no future. It’s not just a case of being “not very well off”, but of being trapped in a situation with no light at the end of the tunnel.

The society that we have now has a lot more complex social problems than existed in the 1950s and 60s.

I am not trying to justify crime, or play down the need for more realistic sentencing, but standing back and trying to take an objective longer term view.

I totally agree with your post. You can't totally eradicate the problem of poverty but perhaps you can plant a seed that will inspire kids to become leaders themselves. For one thing Scotland has a excellent history of producing some great men, and Gordon Brown is no exception through his good ideas. "In return for opportunity for all ... we expect and demand responsibility from all: to learn English, and contribute to and respect the culture we build together." British values, he said, involved "liberty, civic duty, and fairness to all...He's already hinted that he wants to institute a new public holiday – a "British day" – and that immigrants seeking citizenship should demonstrate their loyalty through voluntary community work."

http://www.csmonitor.com/2007/0627/p04s01-woeu.html

[EMDEE]

The trouble is, there is a body of opinion in Scotland that feels that Brown is overplaying the "Britishness" factor at the expense of his Scottishness in order to win support from the English electorate. Blair did not have this problem because, although he was Scottish as well, it was impossible to tell.

[FlyingDragon]

[quote="EMDEE"]The trouble is, there is a body of opinion in Scotland that feels that Brown is overplaying the "Britishness" factor at the expense of his Scottishness in order to win support from the English electorate. Blair did not have this problem because, although he was Scottish as well, it was impossible to tell.[/quote

As a American looking from a less ethnocentric viewpoint I would say that if push came to shove, in a time when all of Britain is threatened by violence and the dissolving of a unified country, both Scotland, England, Wales, and Ireland would not be reluctant to watch each others back. The same can be said of the southern gentleman who occasionally has a northern Yankee visiting his country. There are bloodlines and a history that binds your land together. I can't help thinking of Tolkien's Lord of the Rings where a varied group joined together, nor the words "How can two walk together unless they be in agreement". Some believe that the tales of King Arthur origin comes from Campbeltown, I am one of them.

[EMDEE]

Some believe that the tales of King Arthur origin comes from Campbeltown, I am one of them.

I thought this vaguely rang a bell with me.

http://www.celtic-twilight.com/camelot/ ... bicoir.htm