Israel

[ionnsaigh]

Causality figures: Israel four dead, Palestinian four hundred dead, two thousand injured, two hundred of which are children.
That represents slaughter in anyone's language. The imperialist Israeli Government, have picked a ( winnable war ) for political election reasons. I would strongly recommend a boycott of all Israeli products - including Israeli made computer chips. America should stop all military aid with immediate effect. Israel should decommission it's nuclear arsenal. The international community should force them back to pre 1967 borders. In other words get to hell out of the area - America.

[blueboyno1]

Add to that all the israeli's killed by suicide bombers and past rocket attacks and you may get closer to the truth.If you are going to quote stats ,then quote them from the start of the conflict.The way you are talking it's as if Israel just decided to bomb Palestine overnight. Just another crusade to you ionnsaigh .

[four eyes]

this one could run and run.

[bill]

this one could run and run.

Well it's been running since the time Moses led them out of Egypt.

[four eyes]

as the israelis just zapped a hammas political guy it looks like it will keep on running bill.
is it just me or is something missing in the arab mentality?

[giantredwood]

as the israelis just zapped a hammas political guy it looks like it will keep on running bill.
is it just me or is something missing in the arab mentality?

I'm not sure if anything is missing in the Arab mentality but I think Islam or at least it's more extreme forms definitely has. This is a religion that is seemingly stuck in the 13th century and the rest of the world in large part has moved on and now this outdated creed with it's total devotion to (mythical) spiritual figures finds itself at odds with modern society.When was the last time you heard of any great scientific, medical or technological breakthrough made by the muslim culture other than improvements made to rockets,bombs etc to rain fire and brimstone on the infidel. Even the langauge thats used is from several centuries ago with the declaration of 'fatwahs' and jihad against the 'infidel pigs who insult Allah'. The rest of the world has evolved and learned to live in peace with it's neighbours no matter what religion or beliefs they have, but not Islam. Wherever there are muslims there's trouble, whether it be in the events of 9/11, or the attacks here on 7/7 and all the other foiled plots, Indonesia, Mumbai, Bali,Madrid and even riots on the streets of Denmark all because of a cartoon. It appears you could give in to all their demands but there will always be something else to get their fake rage going and to call for indiscriminate killing in the name of their god all because of some petty perceived slight on their religion.

[LANDROVER ROGER]

Giantredwood,superb post.You hit the nail directly on the head."Stuck in the 13th century"is spot-on.

[History]

BTW A couple of Iranian Nukes will solve all these problems.... Just the same as 'Little Boy' and 'Fat Man' did......

Do you think that a nation like Iran that does not consider itself Arabic would get involved?

[ionnsaigh]

giantredwood, I think it unfair that you pick on Islam, as being in anyway different from any other religions , at least in terms of devotion to mythical spiritual figures. After all that is essentially what religion is - devotion to supernaturalism. Why pick on poor old Islam, as being in some way - more brutal than say - Christianity. Our world, that is the western world suffered, in terms of Knowledge,from a reactionary Christian Church ( Dark Ages ). Islam placed no such restrictions on the Arab world, as such - science developed under Islam - for the next seven hundred years. What of the Zionist mentality ? for you can't measure or weigh one - without the other. The history of our world is littered with wars between Christians. The Catholic Church blessed both German and British before battle. Wars that are fought between religions - are essentially bourgeois - the proletarian masses - on both sides - have little to gain in these types of war.
You go on to say, that we have learned to live in peace with our neighbours - no matter what religion or beliefs they have -
your post clearly contradicts the above values. It appears a xenophobic racist rant.

[blueboyno1]

ionnsaigh----- I have not been on this site long ,but by reading lots of your posts and re[plies i cannot quite make up my mind if you are a leftist,extremist,commie or just a bit of a shit stirrer .Going by your user name (ionnsaigh)which is a scottish gaelic word meaning invasion ,attack ,i cannot make up my mind if you are for or against the invasion of Palestine.Seems to me to be a bit of a codtradiction in terms . In retrospect i think you are just a bit of a shit stirrer

[LANDROVER ROGER]

Ionnsaigh,surely Giantredwood is talking about the current situation and not historically?

[Govangirl]

ionnsaigh----- I have not been on this site long ,but . . . In retrospect i think you are just a bit of a shit stirrer

blueboyno1, you are not wrong BUT what you need to know is that he is our very own wee shit stirrer and he keeps us all on our toes. Happy New Year, Ionns!

[giantredwood]

Ionnsaigh, I'm not picking on Islam, I'm simply stating facts, facts that that you're post has done nothing to prove me wrong. I am well aware of the positive impact Islam had many centuries ago in the fields of science etc, I am also very well aware that many centuries ago Christianity was as brutal and intolerant of other faiths, BUT if you'd bothered to read my post correctly I stated that my view was that other religions have grown up and evolved over time. As far as stating that the Catholic church blessed both British,or more accurately Allied,and German(Axis) troops before battle is pointless as these wars were not about religion and indeed many muslim soldiers fought and died on both sides of these conflicts.

Then to top it all off you accuse me of writing a xenophobic racist rant,when in my very first sentence I make it very clear that I don't believe it is an Arab (race) problem but an Islamic (religion) problem and since Islam is not a race then it just strengthens my view that you read what you wanted to read and not what I actually wrote. The vast majority of muslims are indeed people just like ourselves trying to make a living and live quietly and peacefully BUT there is a sizeable amount who although maybe not actively taking part in any inflammatory actions, certainly don't condemn those extremists who do. I don't remember seeing any demonstrations outside embassies across the world when Hamas was blatantly firing rockets into Israel despite the agreed ceasefire but as soon as Israel retaliates then the usual 'outraged' rent-a-mob suspects with nothing better to do with their time appear in their hundreds .

I suspect you are an old left wing hippy who is still trying to be 'radical man' and needs to realise that the world has moved on, just like the radical Islamists.

Anyway, in the spirit of the time, Happy new year, peace and love, peace and love.

[ionnsaigh]

giantredwood, The facts you state are weighed heavily against Islam. You failed to take into account the facts surrounding Judaism and Israel. Your view that other religions have grown up and evolved over time . WW2 was not a war about religion
however the principal combatants where from the Christian faith - how other can we test or otherwise - the progress of any religion - if we refuse to examine the mindset of it's followers? The Catholic Church failed to condemn the Fascist governments of Spain Germany Italy. In what way - have they progressed?. Race or Religion are not really the issues - both are used conveniently, by the powers that be to mask the true nature - land grab.
Your first post failed to take into account that the majority of Muslims," are indeed people just like ourselves " or " there is a sizable amount who don't condemn the extremists "
The reason you don't see any demonstrations against Hamas - outside embassies across the world is simple enough - firing rockets when under siege - is justified to some extent. The demonstrators you describe as rent a mob - are decent human beings who see the Israeli government as being the aggressor.
Me - I'm not an old anything - at least not yet.

[blueboyno1]

The reason you don't see any demonstrations against Hamas - outside embassies across the world is simple enough - firing rockets when under siege - is justified to some extent. The demonstrators you describe as rent a mob - are decent human beings who see the Israeli government as being the aggressor.


Israel has stated that they would stop the siege as you put it ,if Hamas stop firing the rockets ,which they still do and are not willing to stop .Does that not tell you something ,it tells me that Hamas are not worried about the civilian population.
As soon as one of the head leaders of Hamas was killed in the bombing they declare that they will not stop untill his murderers are punished never mind the civilians .Hamas can stop this but they dont .Israel sigtned a peace treaty with Egypt yet they are sending weapons to Hamas through tunnels and other sources.