"Talentless" Celebrities?

[Govangirl]

Crossed posts. Stop drinking now Horse, you've had enough

[A Horse called Juan Face]

Good. Society negates identity. Simple as that.

Are you being serious Horse or just being a t*at for the sake of it? Again.

So society doesn't deem it necessary for all school children to not only dress alike, but to think alike? Society is bollocks, individuality is dying and the world is encouraging it. And I'm not that drunk.

[Mary G]

A very good online debate on the Economist site, dealing with the sort of issues being discussed here:

http://www.economist.com/debate/debates/overview/137

Mass Intelligence

This house believes that in its appetite for culture, the world is wising up more than it is dumbing down.

In an age of music videos and video games, of instant gratification and attention deficit disorder, it is easy to assume there is less appetite for high culture today than ever before. Yet museums, opera houses and other bastions of traditional culture report an explosion of consumption. As our universities mint increasing numbers of graduates, is the public truly getting smarter, or are we simply snacking on the sophisticated stuff while feasting on junk?

Well worth a read. The evidence does not always back up the instincts that some of us have ... enjoy

[£3.73]

CCTV/voyeurism has been marketed as entertainment .... it's that simple.

Whether it's the aptly named "Big Brother" house or just the "Big Brother" society in general ... with CCTV on every corner, every shop ... it's been cleverly psychologically packaged as entertainment ... "Caught on Camera", "High Speed Police Chases" .... the list is endless. It's conditioning & de-sensitising.

Have you ever paused to wonder that you appear on hundreds of cameras every day ?
... you probably shrug it off ... much like a smoker is immune to the "THESE WILL KILL YOU" warnings on cigarette packets.

Now these cameras can record and respond to audio as well (such a system is being trialed in Glasgow at the moment ... it can monitor conversation and detect "aggressive" noises and zoom in on those - maybe one day it'll zoom in with a 50 calibre machine gun .... muhaha ... a machine ... no conscience y'know .. great things). Add in facial recognition, walk recognition, iris recognition .... all at the tax payers expense ... money no object ...

Then add in DNA databases, databases with your every phonecall and internet click ... dubious links between intelligence agencies and the startup capital behind many popular social networking sites ... the fact that mobile phones were designed to be trackable .... sounds abhorent doesnt it, considering we live in a free society ?

You are being de-sensitised & conditioned to not only like it ... but demand that it happen. ( the paedophiles, the terrorists or the whoever else are gonnae get ye !!! ). Or, you can join the ranks of the apathetic ... meh, who cares?

And we won't get into the coup d'etat whereby the state is now majority shareholder in the most high street banks (think of the potential abuse there, especially come the glorious day when cash is done away with and all transactions become electronic ... we don't like you or your opinions... how much did you say you were worth again ??? muhaha) & the taxpayer is now underwriting a great deal more than he/she was before. (with the blame deflected onto greedy fatcats).

Horse, you're right it's never been a free society. The point is, it isn't as free as it used to be, and getting less free by the day.

Mary G, while I wish you all the best in your bid to become an MP, if you are trying to "spin" your way out of the fact that society is dumber, more superficial, instantly gratified, attention deficit disorder affected & the majority are running around doped up on prescription meds/illegal meds or cheap alcohol .... existing on a diet of junk tv, junk internet, junk culture .... then it's time you stepped out of the minority and had a look at what's happening dear.

... and all yez can talk about are celebrities !!!!

NOW THAT'S A RANT !!!

[Mary G]

Mary G ... if you are trying to "spin" your way out of the fact that society is dumber, more superficial ... then it's time you stepped out of the minority and had a look at what's happening.

All I am doing is pointing people to a debate on the Economist's online site! That publication is hardly renowned for backing my kind of politics I came across this topic on its site earlier this week, by coincidence. So when I read this debate I thought it might be of interest to the people here who are engaged in the discussion. And I said nothing about my own views: All I said was that the evidence - the facts - can be surprising. Being well-versed with the facts and figures is a good starting place in any dialogue, and the Economist provides lots of helpful context and reading for its debates, in my view. I certainly don’t always agree with them. But they are nevertheless interesting.

I am very well aware of there is a lot in our society that can be improved. At the same time, we need to acknowledge when things are good - and getting better. Fair assessment of the facts, and an honest portrayal of them, is the least that any of us should aim for.

For what it is worth, I completely agree with Mags B's assessment further up, when she laments how some young people she met appeared to idolise Paris Hilton.

And thanks for your good wishes, £3.73

[£3.73]

An article from The Times which was removed ???

http://www.sott.net/articles/show/17754 ... r-freedoms

[Mary G]

Hi £3.73

I see that your edit of the message that you originally posted at 9:24 pm was changed to add the word 'dear' in your address to me ...

look at what's happening dear.

Very familiar ... do I know you?

[dr-sanchez]

dr-sanchez wrote:
we could see this in two ways. the world's growing obsession with trivial and talentless celebrities (obvious examples that sprng to mind include jade goody, jodie marsh, anyone else who has come off reality tv and been famous for 5 minutes) can be seen as a sign for either the "dumbing down" of society or the democratisation of education. personally, i plump for the former, as education is kept stored away in places such as universities (although it could be argued that this grip on traditional academic studies is slackening - I myself sat a compulsory module on "celebrity culture" in my first year at university.)

however, could the "dumbing down" of society be a good thing? low and mass cultures are prevailing over high culture, and it could be argued that these are the types of culture which belong to the masses, to the working class. personally, I believe that when the common man prevails, it is a good thing...although we never know who's controlling the tabloids, do we?

you read that somewhere else.

did not!!! up at the uni library just now, always feeling the need to write a load of p*sh that sounds clever when im up here

[Govangirl]

So society doesn't deem it necessary for all school children to not only dress alike, but to think alike?

I totally agree with you on that second one Horse (I actually agree with school uniform so that may make me a hypocrite ) particularly in state examinations but I'm wondering if that, too, is dumbing down. Exams are becoming more and more formulaic.

NOW THAT'S A RANT !!!

Yep, it certainly was but a good one too although it scared the wits out of me (and I didn't like the wee, somewhat unnecessary personal jibe at the end). You're right though, it's not all celebrities at fault but maybe it's just change. I recall how my mother used to rant at how the world was going down the toilet tube because of those four long-haired Beatles and comedy shows like Monty Python.

I have this theory that sounds really old-fashioned but perhaps I'm more like my mother than I realise that kids nowadays don't have anyone to look up to anymore. When I was young we respected figures of authority (the two people I was most scared of were the parkie and the jannie!) and talented personalities - actors, musicians, sportsmen, politicians, The Royal Family, the Police, etc. but now they are all figures of mirth. They appear on 'Get me out of the Jungle' or 'Celebrity Big Brother' or the Catherine Tate Show and make fools of themselves. Footballers, athletes, pop stars - they are no role models and I think young people need better role models than Katona or Hilton or Rooney. I guess it's got a lot to do with the media stalking their every move - 40 years ago we just didn't hear of our heroes' exploits. Maybe that was a good thing.

[LANDROVER ROGER]

Right with you on that one Govangirl.Discipline and respect are both sadly lacking in modern society.

[£3.73]

Lol, I was burning the midnight oil on something else last night and made some edits to my original post, mostly for readability & punctuation ... then added a few more examples etc to give it "shape" and a punchline Not seeing any personal jibes ... hopefully it better addressed all the posts ...

Hi £3.73

I see that your edit of the message that you originally posted at 9:24 pm was changed to add the word 'dear' in your address to me ...

look at what's happening dear.

Very familiar ... do I know you?

60s comedy effect #273 ... think Peter Cook/Peter Sellers/Monty Python as shop stewards or stereotypically working class

[£3.73]

There's another aspect to these "zelebrities" which has kinda been touched on ... but here goes.

Immitation is the sincerest form of flattery

How many people have been living beyond their means to replicate the designer clothes and accessories, or mimic the opulent lifestyles ... the holidays, the homes, the decor, the cars ... the glamour ?

Did they max out the plastic to do so ... you better believe they did !!!

And there is a purely financial reason why the cult of zelebrity exists ... ironically the "zelebrities" appear to get a lot of it for free

[Govangirl]

Aye, and don't forget the plastic surgery. I know someone who had their boobs done and took along a picture of their fave celebrity to show the surgeon what she wanted. This is an ordinary person who doesn't earn a lot.

[£3.73]

forgot about cosmetic surgery and botox and all that .....

[dalintober lad]

I would sure like someone to explain the difference between the talentless celebs they are criticizing on this thread, and the talentless celebs they spout forth about every week on shows like dancing on ice and X-factor ?