Gary McKinnon

[hugh]

The guy's obviously not a terrorist. So why's he being treated like one? More importantly, why 's nobody doing anything about this?

[EMDEE]

The fact that he has Asperger's Syndrome does not appear to have had much consideration.

[Bobh]

i would'nt worry about him, he's getting a job offer after his trial. Seriously, he is. Within their IT Department.

[Govangirl]

A damned disgrace! I had respect for Alan Johnson before this shameful decision. The US should be thanking the guy for showing up their ridiculous security measures. I've got better security around my biscuit tin.

And sometimes I wonder about the compassion we show for our OWN people, I really do.

[£3.73]

A damned disgrace! I had respect for Alan Johnson before this shameful decision. The US should be thanking the guy for showing up their ridiculous security measures. I've got better security around my biscuit tin.

And sometimes I wonder about the compassion we show for our OWN people, I really do.

Presumably, all these network admins etc will wave their Micro$oft certifications at the bad men and if they get up close, and you can see the whites of their eyes, boff them on the ears with it. Software and hardware are so riddled with "backdoors" & "sloppy code" you know ...

As for compassion ... I am always reminded of WW1 ... whose tactics seem ridiculous in hindsight ... but on any given afternoon hundreds of thousands of men would be ordered to march across no mans land and be mown down by machine gun fire, gassed or shelled. Where's the logic or the compassion in that ?

[Sheik Yir Erse]

The guy's obviously not a terrorist.

No, he's not a terrorist, but he is a criminal. He committed a crime in the US, and admitted to it, and now he's facing the results of his actions.

Not really sure why his Aspergers has been held in mitigation, anyone with the intellect to break into the Pentagon and NASA surely has the mental capacity to know what they are doing is against the law.

The US should be thanking the guy for showing up their ridiculous security measures. I've got better security around my biscuit tin.

Finally Govangirl I look forward to you shaking your next burglar warmly by the hand, and thanking them heartily for exposing the poor security surrounding your house. Even if there were only looking for evidence of what was in your biscuit tin

If he is innocent then I'm sure that will come out in his trial, but it seems only fair to let him face trial in the place where he commited his crime. Or maybe it's just me.......

[EMDEE]

Not really sure why his Aspergers has been held in mitigation, anyone with the intellect to break into the Pentagon and NASA surely has the mental capacity to know what they are doing is against the law.

As far as I am aware, Asperger's Syndrome does not necessarily affect someone's intellect, but can affect their own perception of the consequences of their actions. The US Authorities also have a duty to ensure that their systems are secure enough that this would not have been possible, and maybe those responsible for this should be in the dock as well, or at least considering their position. Following on from the burglar analogy, if you leave your house with the windows open, then surely it is your own fault if someone comes in.

[£3.73]

Quite so EMDEE.

And I'd just like to add to that .... it's fairly commonplace to create "honeypot" sites ... ie. fake networks that to an intruder look like the real deal, but are in actuality the equivalent of a house with the windows left open. It's main purpose being to catch wannabe intruders.

Obviously it's impossible to say if entrapment was used in this instance, but it's definately a possibility that hasn't been mentioned at all in any report I've seen. (not that it would be mentioned though !).

As for the hundreds of million of dollars damage he's supposed to have caused ... this will more than likely be a figure pulled out of thin air, but will no doubt be very damaging testimony should he appear in court stateside.

I'm assuming he commited this heinous act from the UK. Therefore it's equally valied to suggest he should be tried in the UK under UK law.

[Malky]

If he is innocent then I'm sure that will come out in his trial, but it seems only fair to let him face trial in the place where he commited his crime. Or maybe it's just me.......

He actually committed the crime using a computer in his own home which is in the UK. I would have thought he should be standing trial here as we have the laws to deal with this sort of thing. I don't think he's innocent and he has admitted to the crime already anyway.

I agree with Govangirl though that the security in the US MILITARY computers was very poor. They didn't even have basic firewalls protecting them. Considering the type of material that is probably stored there, it's criminal that the administrators of these systems didn't have more secure systems in place. If you're likening it to burglary Sheik, then what they did was leave the FRONT door open - never mind the back door They should be grateful that it was a fairly harmless person that hacked in and not a real terrorist team.

People with Aspergers like routine and can get confused when that routine is broken. I assume that is the main reason for the way his defence team is arguing against his extradition. I don't think they will succeed though - there's not the political will to stop the extradition process. McKinnon will be a big suicide risk I fear while he's in the US - if anything happens to him, there will be a massive backlash against the authorities in both countries.

[Sheik Yir Erse]

I love this analogy of doors and windows being WIDE open especially in relation to US Military systems, but anyway let's stick with it ....... if you go out and leave your front door open or unlocked - the person who comes into your house uninvited and causes damage is STILL a burglar!!

There's no entrapment sites involved in this case. The crime was committed in the US, where it was commited from is not really the issue. My thoughts are, if he's innocent he should be able to prove it, then (I'm hoping) he has nothing to fear.

I wonder if his name had been Mohammad Al-Haqtoum Rashid, would there be quite the same clamber to get on the bandwagon

[Mo*]

[quote="Sheik Yir Erse"]I wonder if his name had been Mohammad Al-Haqtoum Rashid, would there be quite the same clamber to get on the bandwagon [/quote]

I agree with Sheik.
Would people be worrying about the extradition of Gary Glitter if he proved he had Asbergers?

[Malky]

I don't think he's innocent - he definately did it, though how much damage he did is debateable. And he's said he only did the damage when he clicked the wrong button But he's admitted that he broke in over a period of years and to a total of over 70,000 computers. Surely someone should have spotted that!

He also said in an interview about 5 years ago that while he was using the US computer systems, there were other hackers in the systems too - hundreds of them he claimed!

And another thing, he was found out in 2002 - why wasn't he prosecuted then? It took the Americans nearly 2 years before they started proceedings against him. Maybe they were waiting to get over their embarrassment.

[£3.73]

And another thing, he was found out in 2002 - why wasn't he prosecuted then? It took the Americans nearly 2 years before they started proceedings against him. Maybe they were waiting to get over their embarrassment.

Not really how these things work Malky.
Things like this are brought into the media arena as and when required ... it's just how it works.

Same principles as sleight of hand magic ... divert the audience attention .. do what you need to do .. then divert it back.
Refocusing I believe is the technical term. The Gary McKinnon saga, or the Katie Price/Peter Andre saga ... or any other saga you could care to mention, stealing all the headlines means that something else isn't.

The best example I can think of is when GW Bush visited London, and hundreds of thousands of people gathered and pulled down a huge statue of him they'd made (was meant to be symbolic of the Saddam statue getting pulled down when Baghdad fell) .. now that would have been a major news story .. except Michael Jackson was arrested .. guess what the news was talking about that day, especially stateside ?

Or .. did anyone else notice that on the day of the European Elections, there was scant mention of it (the election) on the BBC website ... and I kid you not .... the headline story was about the dangers of using a trampoline while drunk !!!

Take the coming week .. has anyone heard of Copenhagen, or what's going to be signed there .. or the consequences for all of us ? Or bothered to wonder why NOW ... that climate change emails are being stolen & leaked ?

The media is a warzone right now .. the battle for hearts & minds .. and the Gary McKinnon franchise is just a part of it ..

He admits to commiting the crime. Many other high profile hackers have done worse, and been tried quicker.

[Govangirl]

Well, I'm still saddened by it all. And if I happened to break into Sheik's biscuit tin, I'd be upset to lose my fingers and tongue seeing as I'm very fond of them. When I talk about compassion Sheik, I mean the kind that any humane person would have for a vulnerable fellow citizen with a significant disorder. Your willingness to put him into prison on foreign soil for 60 years is sad just as Mr Johnson's willingness to put him into prison on foreign soil for 60 years is both spineless and totally barbaric.
And just aside, I cannot see what the hell this 'crime' has to do with the vile crimes of Gary Glitter

[Sheik Yir Erse]

Your willingness to put him into prison on foreign soil for 60 years is sad .....

I'm afraid that's where you've misunderstood me Govangirl, I have no willingness to put him in prison for 60 years, I simply have a willingness for the laws of the land to be followed, and for this individual to be accountable for his actions. I've said many times that if he's innocent, the I would hope that would be proved.

My great concern is there's a huge bandwagon here, anyone and everyone is jumping on it. £3.73 is correct - it's not uncommon for hackers to get caught, jailed, extradited (to the place their crimes were committed) - why suddenly is this one any different?

Do you not also find it slightly odd that his Aspergers was only diagnoses AFTER extradition proceedings were started. So he managed to live a 'normal' life for 40 odd years, holding down a job in IT, without the need for anyone (including his family) to request a diagnosis for his disorder. He has been afforded access to every single court in the land, and the simple matter is the case against his extradition does not stack up.

And just aside, I cannot see what the hell this 'crime' has to do with the vile crimes of Gary Glitter

The law is there to ensure due process is followed regardless of vileness of the crime.

-----------------

Finally, back to my land of analogies.

Wee Tam's up in-front of the Sheriff for burglary. His 'mitigating' evidence, as to why he shouldn't actually be getting charged with the crime, is offered...........

"It wisnae jeest me that wiz there"
"The frunt dor wisnae locked when a tried it"
"A didnae meentae set the hoos on fire when a wiz in it, it wiz an accident, so aw rat damij wisnae reely ma falt."

and his mother offers up ....

"A' ken the boy'z brokin intae thoosans o' hooses yir Honour, but I think he's jeest no right, yi know! It's his Aspergers you see."

I'm sure some would have a different take on that scenario, but again ........ possibly just me